How the words of one of Islam’s leading Taqiyyist
backfire against him
Sam Shamoun
In our encounters with Muslim dawagandists we have found that they have absolutely no problem with selectively citing scholars which suit their purpose and will not hesitate to distort sources in order to undermine the veracity of the Holy Bible and defend the false claims of Islam. This shouldn’t surprise our readers since Islam allows Muslim dawagandists to lie and use deception in order to protect their own interests and/or to further the cause of Islam (*; *; *; *; *).
Yet the difficulty with having to constantly lie and deceive people into believing a false religion is that it eventually catches up to you. After all, it is harder to maintain a lie than it is to speak the truth since a person must have a very sharp memory in order to be able to repeat the same lie over and over again without slipping.
Shabir Ally is one such Muslim who, in our estimation, is one of the most deceptive Islamic apologists out there. However, Shabir is faced with a challenge in that he hasn’t been “gifted” with a sharp memory whereby he can maintain the same lie which accounts for why he often changes his position or argument depending on his audience and debate opponent. Yet by failing to maintain the same lie or deception Shabir ends up exposing himself time and time again.
One such time when Shabir made certain claims which ended up backfiring against him is in a discussion he had with leading NT scholar Michael Licona which took place on Lee Strobel’s show, Faith Under Fire. Licona and Shabir were invited to discuss whether the historical Jesus was Divine or just a human prophet.
When Strobel asked why should anyone consider the Quran to be a better historical record than the New Testament, seeing that it was composed centuries after the time of Christ, Shabir replied by saying that,
“Well the Quran doesn’t claim to be a better historical record. The Quran claims to reaffirm that teaching which is there in the earlier historical record, namely, the Gospels themselves; and it calls upon the people of the Gospel to judge by what God has revealed in the Gospels. And when we look at the Gospels we see that Jesus throughout was referring to himself as the Son of Man, which means a human being, that he had human limitations, he did not know everything. He said that of that day and hour no one knows, not even the Son but the Father only. He said, ‘I can of myself do nothing,’ uh, ‘I do only as the Father has commanded me.’ Throughout Jesus is deferring to God, in fact he falls to his face and prays to God. All of these are human attributes which the Quran affirms as clear evidence that Jesus was a prophet, he was a human servant and messenger of God.” (Michael Licona versus Shabir Ally, Faith Under Fire – Who Was Jesus? Divine or Prophet? *; *)
In his haste to debunk historic orthodox Christian beliefs Shabir’s comments actually refute the Quran and prove that Muhammad is a false prophet!
For instance, Shabir’s statement that the Quran calls the people of the Gospel to judge by what God has revealed in the Gospels is a direct allusion to the following text:
And We sent, following in their footsteps, Jesus son of Mary, confirming the Torah that was between his hands and We gave to him the Gospel, wherein is guidance and light, and confirming the Torah that was between his hands, as a guidance and an admonition unto the godfearing. So let the People of the Gospel judge according to what Allah has sent down therein. Whosoever judges not according to what Allah has sent down -- they are the ungodly. S. 5:46-47
However, by saying that this text exhorts Christians to judge by the Gospels, plural, Shabir pretty much confirmed that the Gospel which God gave to Jesus is synonymous with the four canonical Gospels of the New Testament! In other words, Shabir’s statements presuppose that the four canonical Gospels which Christians possess are the written records of the very Gospel which God revealed to Christ!
Shabir wouldn’t be alone in identifying the NT Gospels as the inscripturation of the Gospel which Jesus received and passed on to his followers. According to one of the oldest extant biographies on the life of Muhammad the Gospel of John is actually the written account of the very Gospel which God gave to Jesus’ followers!
“Among the things which have reached me about what Jesus the Son of Mary stated in the Gospel which he received from God for the followers of the Gospel, in applying a term to describe the apostle of God, is the following. It is extracted FROM WHAT JOHN THE APOSTLE SET DOWN FOR THEM WHEN HE WROTE THE GOSPEL FOR THEM FROM THE TESTAMENT OF JESUS SON OF MARY: ‘He that hateth me hateth the Lord. And if I had not done in their presence works which none other before me did, they had not sin: but from now they are puffed up with pride and think that they will overcome me and also the Lord. But the word that is in the law must be fulfilled, "They hated me without a cause" (i.e. without reason). But when the Comforter has come whom God will send to you from the Lord's presence, and the spirit of truth which will have gone forth from the Lord's presence he (shall bear) witness of me and ye also, because ye have been with me from the beginning. I have spoken unto you about this that ye should not be in doubt.’
“The Munahhemana (God bless and preserve him!) in Syriac is Muhammad; in Greek he is the paraclete. (The Life of Muhammad: A Translation of Ibn Ishaq’s Sirat Rasul Allah, with introduction and notes by Alfred Guillaume [Oxford University Press, Karachi, Tenth impression 1995], pp. 103-104; bold and capital emphasis ours)
And here we want to say that we agree with Shabir regarding this point. The Quran does indeed presuppose that the Scriptures which the Christians possessed at the time of Muhammad are the very revelations which God gave to Jesus to pass on to his followers. Since these Christians not only possessed the four Gospels but also the other books which compromise the New Testament this means that the Quran affirms that the NT writings are the inspired words of God! For more on what the Quran says concerning the Holy Bible please consult the articles found on this overview page.
This leads us to the other problem with Shabir’s assertions. It is true that the Quran CLAIMS to confirm the earlier scriptures, but this is WRONG and the fact that it is wrong can be illustrated clearly with an example of Shabir Ally himself when he misinterprets the messianic title “Son of Man” through Quranic glasses. A careful examination of the Gospels shows that Jesus used this title in contexts which affirm that he is a preexistent Divine Being.
For instance, Jesus claimed that as the Son of Man he can forgive sins, a prerogative which belongs only to God:
“When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, ‘Son, your sins are forgiven.’ Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, ‘Why does this fellow talk like that? He's blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?’ Immediately Jesus knew in his spirit that this was what they were thinking in their hearts, and he said to them, ‘Why are you thinking these things? Which is easier: to say to the paralytic, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up, take your mat and walk”? But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins. . . .’ He said to the paralytic, ‘I tell you, get up, take your mat and go home.’ He got up, took his mat and walked out in full view of them all. This amazed everyone and they praised God, saying, ‘We have never seen anything like this!’” Mark 2:5-12
Jesus as the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath day:
“So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.” Mark 2:28
He is also the Son of Man who came down from heaven and returned there:
“No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.” John 3:13
“What if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before!” John 6:62
And as the Son of Man he is the I AM that existed even before Abraham and who perfectly carries out his Father’s instructions:
“So Jesus said, ‘When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I AM and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me.’ … Jesus said to them, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham came into being, I AM.’” John 8:28, 58
There is more to the story. Jesus taught his followers that he is the Son of Man who will come riding the clouds in his Father’s glory along with his holy angels:
“If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his Father's glory with the holy angels.” Mark 8:38
“At that time men will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. And he will send HIS angels and gather HIS elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.” Mark 13:26-27
Jesus is claiming to be the same Son of Man whom the prophet Daniel saw and wrote about:
“In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.” Daniel 7:13-14
What makes this particular Son of Man rather unique is that he rides the clouds like God does, reigns forever like God, and is worshiped by all the nations in the same way that God is (cf. 3:16-18, 28; 6:16, 20, 26; 7:27; Exodus 13:21-22; 14:19-20, 24; 33:7-11; 40:34-38; Numbers 10:34; Psalm 68:4, 33-34; 86:9; 104:3; Isaiah 19:1; 66:23; Micah 4:7; Nahum 1:3). It is therefore apparent that this Son of Man is not a creature but a fully Divine Person appearing as a man.
Hence, by identifying himself as this very same Son of Man Jesus was obviously claiming to be God in human form!
Ironically, when Licona mentioned that in Mark 14:61-62 Jesus identified himself with Daniel’s exalted Son of Man and claimed to be a co-occupant of God’s very own throne Shabir tried to brush it aside by saying that God could allow someone to sit on his throne. Yet Shabir overlooked the fact that it isn’t simply the issue that the Son of Man occupies God’s throne, but that he also receives the very exclusive worship which belongs only to God. Thus, if the Son of Man is not God but a creature then this means that God is promoting idolatry since he is expressly commanding all nations to worship a creature in the same way that they worship him.
Coming back to the point, Jesus also said that the Son of Man would be crucified and killed in order to offer up his life as a ransom to save many:
“They were on their way up to Jerusalem, with Jesus leading the way, and the disciples were astonished, while those who followed were afraid. Again he took the Twelve aside and told them what was going to happen to him. ‘We are going up to Jerusalem,’ he said, ‘and the Son of Man will be betrayed to the chief priests and teachers of the law. They will condemn him to death and will hand him over to the Gentiles, who will mock him and spit on him, flog him and kill him. Three days later he will rise… For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.’” Mark 10:32-34, 45 – cf. 8:31-32; 9:30-31
Thus, if the Quran confirms the Gospels, and therefore confirms the title “Son of Man” for Jesus, as Shabir seems to claim, then this would imply that the Quran actually confirms the Deity and vicarious death of the Lord Jesus Christ, as we have just seen! In any case, what he says about the Quran is true: The Quran makes that claim (whether it is true or false). Shabir’s problem is that he has to misrepresent the Holy Bible by trying to play down the meaning of the title Son of Man.
Shabir’s problems are far from over. Shabir made direct reference to the following text when he stated that Jesus didn’t know the day or hour:
“No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.” Mark 13:32
What Shabir overlooked is that in this particular verse Jesus as the Son places himself above men and angels, being subject to the Father in terms of knowledge. Hence, by placing himself above humans and angels Jesus was essentially claiming to be superior to all creation!
Shabir further stated that Jesus said he could nothing by himself, which is a reference to the following passage:
“So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jews persecuted him. Jesus said to them, ‘My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working.’ For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath,but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God. Jesus gave them this answer: ‘I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because WHATEVER the Father does the Son ALSO DOES. For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, to your amazement he will show him even greater things than these. For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, EVEN SO the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son JUST AS they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him. I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life. I tell you the truth, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son to have life in himself. And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man. Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear HIS [the Son’s] voice and come out—those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned. By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.’” John 5:16-30
In this very same passage that Shabir alluded to Jesus claims that he can do everything that the Father does, such as give life to whomever he pleases and raise the dead from their graves just by the sound of his voice! Jesus further stated that he has life in himself just as the Father does and that all must honor him in the same way that they honor the Father! Hence, far from establishing Shabir’s assertion that Jesus is just a man the immediate context actually proves that Jesus is fully God and co-equal with the Father.
Shabir further argued that the historical Jesus fell to the ground and prayed to God. However, what Shabir did not mention is that Jesus addressed God as “Abba” or Father:
“Going a little farther, he fell to the ground and prayed that if possible the hour might pass from him. ‘Abba, Father,’ he said, ‘everything is possible for you. Take this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will.’” Mark 14:35-36
In light of the foregoing this means, that according to Shabir, the Quran affirms that Jesus is the Son of God who is superior to humans and angels, being subject only to the Father, who can do everything that his Father does, and that he is the Divine Son of Man who came to die on the cross as a ransom for many!
The readers should see the problems with Shabir’s argument that the Islamic scripture affirms all of these truths, namely, the Quran actually denies all of these assertions! For example, the Quran denies that Jesus is God’s Son who died vicariously on the cross to ransom sinners:
And for their saying, ‘We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah' -- yet they did not slay him, neither crucified him, only a likeness of that was shown to them. Those who are at variance concerning him surely are in doubt regarding him; they have no knowledge of him, except the following of surmise; and they slew him not of a certainty -- no indeed; Allah raised him up to Him; Allah is All-mighty, All-wise. S. 4:157-158
And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away! S. 9:30
The Muslim scripture also denies that Allah has children since he is a father to no one. In fact, the highest relationship one can have with Allah is that of a slave!
And they say: The Beneficent God has taken (to Himself) a son. Certainly you have made an abominable assertion The heavens may almost be rent thereat, and the earth cleave asunder, and the mountains fall down in pieces, That they ascribe a son to the Beneficent God. And it is not worthy of the Beneficent God that He should take (to Himself) a son. There is no one in the heavens and the earth but will come to the Beneficent God as a servant. S. 19:88-93
And they say: The Beneficent God has taken to Himself a son. Glory be to Him. Nay! they are honored servants. S. 21:26
How, then, could Shabir claim that the Quran affirms all of these Biblical truths? The answer is rather simple. In his haste to address Strobel’s question that the Quran is a document written centuries after the time of Christ, and is therefore an unreliable witness when it comes to issues concerning the life of the historical Jesus, Shabir had to prove to the audience that its testimony shouldn’t be discounted since it actually agrees with what the earliest records on the life of Jesus teach.
Shabir’s second mistake was to then interpret the NT teaching concerning Jesus in light of his Islamic presuppositions which prevented him from seeing how these very statements actually refute the Quran. This is why he erroneously assumed that Jesus’ Son of Man statements actually prove that Jesus was nothing more than a man when in point of fact this self-designation conclusively demonstrates that Jesus is a preexistent Divine Being. Jesus’ use of the Son of Man proves that the historical Jesus believed that he was a fully Divine Person who was appearing in human form, being the very same Divine figure that the prophet Daniel saw all nations worshiping as he rules over them forever.
In concluding we will now summarize the implications of Shabir’s assertions so the readers can see the problems that Shabir created for himself by trying to mislead the audience into thinking that the Quran actually confirms what the Gospels teach concerning Jesus.
According to Shabir the Quran confirms the following facts about Jesus.
- The Gospels are the written records of the very Gospel which God revealed to Jesus’ followers, and Christians should therefore judge by them.
- Jesus is the Divine Son of Man who reigns forever and shall be worshiped by all the nations (this would include Muhammad as well).
- Jesus is also the Son of Man who was killed by crucifixion in order to ransom the lives of many and who physically, bodily resurrected from the grave on the third day.
- Jesus is the Son of God who is higher than angels and men, being subject only to the Father.
- Jesus is the Son who can do nothing on his own initiative but can perfectly do whatever the Father does, such as give life and raise the dead etc.
Therefore, if Shabir is right that the Quran affirms all of these Biblical statements that he claims were made by the historical Jesus then Muhammad was wrong and is a false prophet since he denied Jesus’ Deity, his vicarious death on the cross, and did not believe that his god was a Father to anyone, especially the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
This is what happens when Muslim dawagandists like Shabir have to use lies and deception in order to defend falsehood and attack God’s true Word, the Holy Bible. The Triune Lord ends up shaming them by exposing their lies and causing them to sound like fools whenever they speak against his Word:
“Every word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. Do not add to his words, or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar.” Proverbs 30:5-6
“Why do the nations conspire and the peoples plot in vain? The kings of the earth take their stand and the rulers gather together against the LORD and against his Messiah/Christ. ‘Let us break their chains,’ they say, ‘and throw off their fetters.’ The One enthroned in heaven laughs; the Lord scoffs at them. Then he rebukes them in his anger and terrifies them in his wrath, saying, ‘I have installed my King on Zion, my holy hill.’ I will proclaim the decree of the LORD: He said to me, ‘You are my Son; today I have begotten you. Ask of me, and I will make the nations your inheritance, the ends of the earth your possession. You will rule them with an iron scepter; you will dash them to pieces like pottery.’ Therefore, you kings, be wise; be warned, you rulers of the earth. Serve the LORD with fear and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry and you be destroyed in your way, for his wrath can flare up in a moment. Blessed are all who take refuge in him.” Psalm 2:1-12
Addendum
The Desperate Polemics of Islam's Dawagandists
Bassam Zawadi contacted Shabir Ally to respond to my article exposing his slip. In so doing Zawadi shows that he didn’t understand my objection, nor did Shabir Ally for that matter. Zawadi begins his article by misrepresenting my argument:
He claims that Shabir Ally believes that the Qur'an affirms the authority of the four Gospels as fully divine. Shabir Ally replying back in email denies this charge completely:
Zawadi makes it more obvious with every article and “rebuttal” that he simply does not understand what he reads since that’s not quite what I said. I said that Shabir’s statements presuppose that the four Gospels are actually the Gospel which the Quran exhorts Christians to judge by. Can Zawadi ever present my statements or represent what I say accurately?
Zawadi then posts Ally’s reply:
Of course I believe, as do most Muslims, that the Quran both confirms the truth of that which was revealed in the previous scriptures and at the same time serves as a quality controller to expose the corruptions which human beings have introduced into God's Word. Sam takes the first part of this assertion, ignores the second part of that assertion, though this must by now be known to every reviewer of my debates, and builds a case on inferences he can make from the same.
Hence he proceeds by saying that this would mean that Shabir believes in the Gospels as they are, and therefore he believes in Jesus as God, and therefore he disbelieves the Quran which denies this. Since Shabir is still a Muslim he must be is lying in saying that the Quran confirms the Bible, etc. (Source)
This response leads me to wonder whether either of these gentlemen even understood my argument. I thought I had made it fully clear that by saying that the Quran confirms the Gospels, plural, Shabir made a mistake which cost him dearly. I stated quite plainly that in his haste to address Strobel’s question and to debunk historic Christian beliefs Shabir slipped and said that the Quran exhorts Christians to judge by the Gospels. Do either of these gentlemen understand that by saying that Shabir slipped I was basically acknowledging that Shabir made a mistake since he obviously doesn’t believe that the Gospels are synonymous with the Gospel revealed to Jesus?
With that said, I am fully aware of Ally’s position so there was no need for Zawadi to have contacted him to clarify what he believes concerning the Quran’s relationship to the previous Scriptures. However, nothing that Shabir says here addresses my point but actually ignores and distorts what I had written.
For instance, Shabir doesn’t address the fact that he expressly identified the Gospel which the Quran exhorts Christians to judge by as the Gospels. Sadly, Zawadi doesn't see how in saying this Shabir pretty much refutes what Zawadi wrote in response to Dr. White’s assertion that the author of the Quran may have mistakenly thought that the Gospel was a book written by Jesus:
Well it depends on what Gospel James White is talking about. If he is talking about the four Gospels, well then that is not what the Qur'an is even talking about to begin with. The Qur'an is speaking about the actual revelation sent from God to Jesus (peace be upon him). (The Arrogance and Ignorance of James White)
If the Quran isn’t speaking about the Gospels but is actually referring to the revelation sent from God to Jesus then how could Shabir say that the Quran exhorts Christians to judge by the Gospels?
More importantly, which of these two dawagandists should we believe? Is Shabir right that the Quran expects Christians to judge by the Gospels, plural, which means that Zawadi is wrong? Or is Zawadi correct that the Quran isn’t speaking of the Gospels at all, and therefore Shabir is mistaken?
That Shabir was correct, albeit unintentionally, and Zawadi is in error can be easily proven from simply reading the Quranic passage in context:
And We sent, following in their footsteps, Jesus son of Mary, confirming the Torah that was between his hands and We gave to him the Gospel, wherein is guidance and light, and confirming the Torah that was between his hands, as a guidance and an admonition unto the godfearing. So let the People of the Gospel judge according to what Allah has sent down therein. Whosoever judges not according to what Allah has sent down -- they are the ungodly. S. 5:46-47
This command to the People of the Gospel presupposes that the Christians at Muhammad’s time still had in their possession the very Gospel which God gave to Jesus; otherwise how could they be expected to judge by a revelation that no longer existed in its pristine form? In light of this fact the question that Zawadi has to address, but which he keeps avoiding, is what was the Gospel which the Christians of Muhammad’s time possessed? Weren’t these Christians reading the very NT Gospels which we still have in our possessions till this day? If not then can Zawadi provide any textual, historical and/or archaeological data proving that the Christians which the Quran is addressing were reading some other Gospel than the NT Gospels?
Shabir also failed to address the fact that he was the one who claimed that the Quran confirms all of the following “human attributes” of Christ:
- Jesus claimed to be the Son of Man.
- Jesus didn’t know everything since he said “that of that day and hour no one knows, not even the Son but the Father only” (cf. Mark 13:32).
- Jesus further said that, “I can of myself do nothing,” and “I do only as the Father has commanded me” (cf. John 5:19, 30).
- Jesus fell on his face and prayed to God (cf. Mark 14:36-38).
We already saw how these statements about Jesus which Shabir claims the Quran confirms actually prove the exact opposite of what Shabir contended in his dialogue with Mike Licona. These facts which Shabir himself pointed to establish that the historical Jesus believed that he is the Divine Son of Man and unique Son of God who is exalted above all creatures, being subject only to God the Father. Therefore, how can I be accused of lying or misrepresenting Shabir’s position when it was Shabir himself who argued that the Quran confirms these particular NT teachings?
Zawadi says that he has refuted my attempts to prove that Islam confirms the textual integrity of the Quran, though what he really meant is that he has responded to my argument that the Quran confirms the textual integrity of the Holy Bible. I invite the readers to peruse all of the articles and rebuttals that are found here and judge whether Zawadi has really been able to refute my case. Moreover, he links to Zaatari’s article where he misrepresents Jochen Katz’s argument to prove that even Katz refutes me on this point! In so doing Zawadi is once again simply confirming that he is unable to comprehend the arguments correctly and is therefore incapable of providing a meaningful response.
Lord willing, there will be further rebuttals to Zawadi’s “replies” in the near future.
Source: http://answering-islam.org/authors/shamoun/rebuttals/ally/gospels.html
IHS
Sam Shamoun
In our encounters with Muslim dawagandists we have found that they have absolutely no problem with selectively citing scholars which suit their purpose and will not hesitate to distort sources in order to undermine the veracity of the Holy Bible and defend the false claims of Islam. This shouldn’t surprise our readers since Islam allows Muslim dawagandists to lie and use deception in order to protect their own interests and/or to further the cause of Islam (*; *; *; *; *).
Yet the difficulty with having to constantly lie and deceive people into believing a false religion is that it eventually catches up to you. After all, it is harder to maintain a lie than it is to speak the truth since a person must have a very sharp memory in order to be able to repeat the same lie over and over again without slipping.
Shabir Ally is one such Muslim who, in our estimation, is one of the most deceptive Islamic apologists out there. However, Shabir is faced with a challenge in that he hasn’t been “gifted” with a sharp memory whereby he can maintain the same lie which accounts for why he often changes his position or argument depending on his audience and debate opponent. Yet by failing to maintain the same lie or deception Shabir ends up exposing himself time and time again.
One such time when Shabir made certain claims which ended up backfiring against him is in a discussion he had with leading NT scholar Michael Licona which took place on Lee Strobel’s show, Faith Under Fire. Licona and Shabir were invited to discuss whether the historical Jesus was Divine or just a human prophet.
When Strobel asked why should anyone consider the Quran to be a better historical record than the New Testament, seeing that it was composed centuries after the time of Christ, Shabir replied by saying that,
“Well the Quran doesn’t claim to be a better historical record. The Quran claims to reaffirm that teaching which is there in the earlier historical record, namely, the Gospels themselves; and it calls upon the people of the Gospel to judge by what God has revealed in the Gospels. And when we look at the Gospels we see that Jesus throughout was referring to himself as the Son of Man, which means a human being, that he had human limitations, he did not know everything. He said that of that day and hour no one knows, not even the Son but the Father only. He said, ‘I can of myself do nothing,’ uh, ‘I do only as the Father has commanded me.’ Throughout Jesus is deferring to God, in fact he falls to his face and prays to God. All of these are human attributes which the Quran affirms as clear evidence that Jesus was a prophet, he was a human servant and messenger of God.” (Michael Licona versus Shabir Ally, Faith Under Fire – Who Was Jesus? Divine or Prophet? *; *)
In his haste to debunk historic orthodox Christian beliefs Shabir’s comments actually refute the Quran and prove that Muhammad is a false prophet!
For instance, Shabir’s statement that the Quran calls the people of the Gospel to judge by what God has revealed in the Gospels is a direct allusion to the following text:
And We sent, following in their footsteps, Jesus son of Mary, confirming the Torah that was between his hands and We gave to him the Gospel, wherein is guidance and light, and confirming the Torah that was between his hands, as a guidance and an admonition unto the godfearing. So let the People of the Gospel judge according to what Allah has sent down therein. Whosoever judges not according to what Allah has sent down -- they are the ungodly. S. 5:46-47
However, by saying that this text exhorts Christians to judge by the Gospels, plural, Shabir pretty much confirmed that the Gospel which God gave to Jesus is synonymous with the four canonical Gospels of the New Testament! In other words, Shabir’s statements presuppose that the four canonical Gospels which Christians possess are the written records of the very Gospel which God revealed to Christ!
Shabir wouldn’t be alone in identifying the NT Gospels as the inscripturation of the Gospel which Jesus received and passed on to his followers. According to one of the oldest extant biographies on the life of Muhammad the Gospel of John is actually the written account of the very Gospel which God gave to Jesus’ followers!
“Among the things which have reached me about what Jesus the Son of Mary stated in the Gospel which he received from God for the followers of the Gospel, in applying a term to describe the apostle of God, is the following. It is extracted FROM WHAT JOHN THE APOSTLE SET DOWN FOR THEM WHEN HE WROTE THE GOSPEL FOR THEM FROM THE TESTAMENT OF JESUS SON OF MARY: ‘He that hateth me hateth the Lord. And if I had not done in their presence works which none other before me did, they had not sin: but from now they are puffed up with pride and think that they will overcome me and also the Lord. But the word that is in the law must be fulfilled, "They hated me without a cause" (i.e. without reason). But when the Comforter has come whom God will send to you from the Lord's presence, and the spirit of truth which will have gone forth from the Lord's presence he (shall bear) witness of me and ye also, because ye have been with me from the beginning. I have spoken unto you about this that ye should not be in doubt.’
“The Munahhemana (God bless and preserve him!) in Syriac is Muhammad; in Greek he is the paraclete. (The Life of Muhammad: A Translation of Ibn Ishaq’s Sirat Rasul Allah, with introduction and notes by Alfred Guillaume [Oxford University Press, Karachi, Tenth impression 1995], pp. 103-104; bold and capital emphasis ours)
And here we want to say that we agree with Shabir regarding this point. The Quran does indeed presuppose that the Scriptures which the Christians possessed at the time of Muhammad are the very revelations which God gave to Jesus to pass on to his followers. Since these Christians not only possessed the four Gospels but also the other books which compromise the New Testament this means that the Quran affirms that the NT writings are the inspired words of God! For more on what the Quran says concerning the Holy Bible please consult the articles found on this overview page.
This leads us to the other problem with Shabir’s assertions. It is true that the Quran CLAIMS to confirm the earlier scriptures, but this is WRONG and the fact that it is wrong can be illustrated clearly with an example of Shabir Ally himself when he misinterprets the messianic title “Son of Man” through Quranic glasses. A careful examination of the Gospels shows that Jesus used this title in contexts which affirm that he is a preexistent Divine Being.
For instance, Jesus claimed that as the Son of Man he can forgive sins, a prerogative which belongs only to God:
“When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, ‘Son, your sins are forgiven.’ Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, ‘Why does this fellow talk like that? He's blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?’ Immediately Jesus knew in his spirit that this was what they were thinking in their hearts, and he said to them, ‘Why are you thinking these things? Which is easier: to say to the paralytic, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up, take your mat and walk”? But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins. . . .’ He said to the paralytic, ‘I tell you, get up, take your mat and go home.’ He got up, took his mat and walked out in full view of them all. This amazed everyone and they praised God, saying, ‘We have never seen anything like this!’” Mark 2:5-12
Jesus as the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath day:
“So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.” Mark 2:28
He is also the Son of Man who came down from heaven and returned there:
“No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.” John 3:13
“What if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before!” John 6:62
And as the Son of Man he is the I AM that existed even before Abraham and who perfectly carries out his Father’s instructions:
“So Jesus said, ‘When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I AM and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me.’ … Jesus said to them, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham came into being, I AM.’” John 8:28, 58
There is more to the story. Jesus taught his followers that he is the Son of Man who will come riding the clouds in his Father’s glory along with his holy angels:
“If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his Father's glory with the holy angels.” Mark 8:38
“At that time men will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. And he will send HIS angels and gather HIS elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.” Mark 13:26-27
Jesus is claiming to be the same Son of Man whom the prophet Daniel saw and wrote about:
“In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.” Daniel 7:13-14
What makes this particular Son of Man rather unique is that he rides the clouds like God does, reigns forever like God, and is worshiped by all the nations in the same way that God is (cf. 3:16-18, 28; 6:16, 20, 26; 7:27; Exodus 13:21-22; 14:19-20, 24; 33:7-11; 40:34-38; Numbers 10:34; Psalm 68:4, 33-34; 86:9; 104:3; Isaiah 19:1; 66:23; Micah 4:7; Nahum 1:3). It is therefore apparent that this Son of Man is not a creature but a fully Divine Person appearing as a man.
Hence, by identifying himself as this very same Son of Man Jesus was obviously claiming to be God in human form!
Ironically, when Licona mentioned that in Mark 14:61-62 Jesus identified himself with Daniel’s exalted Son of Man and claimed to be a co-occupant of God’s very own throne Shabir tried to brush it aside by saying that God could allow someone to sit on his throne. Yet Shabir overlooked the fact that it isn’t simply the issue that the Son of Man occupies God’s throne, but that he also receives the very exclusive worship which belongs only to God. Thus, if the Son of Man is not God but a creature then this means that God is promoting idolatry since he is expressly commanding all nations to worship a creature in the same way that they worship him.
Coming back to the point, Jesus also said that the Son of Man would be crucified and killed in order to offer up his life as a ransom to save many:
“They were on their way up to Jerusalem, with Jesus leading the way, and the disciples were astonished, while those who followed were afraid. Again he took the Twelve aside and told them what was going to happen to him. ‘We are going up to Jerusalem,’ he said, ‘and the Son of Man will be betrayed to the chief priests and teachers of the law. They will condemn him to death and will hand him over to the Gentiles, who will mock him and spit on him, flog him and kill him. Three days later he will rise… For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.’” Mark 10:32-34, 45 – cf. 8:31-32; 9:30-31
Thus, if the Quran confirms the Gospels, and therefore confirms the title “Son of Man” for Jesus, as Shabir seems to claim, then this would imply that the Quran actually confirms the Deity and vicarious death of the Lord Jesus Christ, as we have just seen! In any case, what he says about the Quran is true: The Quran makes that claim (whether it is true or false). Shabir’s problem is that he has to misrepresent the Holy Bible by trying to play down the meaning of the title Son of Man.
Shabir’s problems are far from over. Shabir made direct reference to the following text when he stated that Jesus didn’t know the day or hour:
“No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.” Mark 13:32
What Shabir overlooked is that in this particular verse Jesus as the Son places himself above men and angels, being subject to the Father in terms of knowledge. Hence, by placing himself above humans and angels Jesus was essentially claiming to be superior to all creation!
Shabir further stated that Jesus said he could nothing by himself, which is a reference to the following passage:
“So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jews persecuted him. Jesus said to them, ‘My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working.’ For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath,but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God. Jesus gave them this answer: ‘I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because WHATEVER the Father does the Son ALSO DOES. For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, to your amazement he will show him even greater things than these. For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, EVEN SO the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son JUST AS they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him. I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life. I tell you the truth, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son to have life in himself. And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man. Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear HIS [the Son’s] voice and come out—those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned. By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.’” John 5:16-30
In this very same passage that Shabir alluded to Jesus claims that he can do everything that the Father does, such as give life to whomever he pleases and raise the dead from their graves just by the sound of his voice! Jesus further stated that he has life in himself just as the Father does and that all must honor him in the same way that they honor the Father! Hence, far from establishing Shabir’s assertion that Jesus is just a man the immediate context actually proves that Jesus is fully God and co-equal with the Father.
Shabir further argued that the historical Jesus fell to the ground and prayed to God. However, what Shabir did not mention is that Jesus addressed God as “Abba” or Father:
“Going a little farther, he fell to the ground and prayed that if possible the hour might pass from him. ‘Abba, Father,’ he said, ‘everything is possible for you. Take this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will.’” Mark 14:35-36
In light of the foregoing this means, that according to Shabir, the Quran affirms that Jesus is the Son of God who is superior to humans and angels, being subject only to the Father, who can do everything that his Father does, and that he is the Divine Son of Man who came to die on the cross as a ransom for many!
The readers should see the problems with Shabir’s argument that the Islamic scripture affirms all of these truths, namely, the Quran actually denies all of these assertions! For example, the Quran denies that Jesus is God’s Son who died vicariously on the cross to ransom sinners:
And for their saying, ‘We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah' -- yet they did not slay him, neither crucified him, only a likeness of that was shown to them. Those who are at variance concerning him surely are in doubt regarding him; they have no knowledge of him, except the following of surmise; and they slew him not of a certainty -- no indeed; Allah raised him up to Him; Allah is All-mighty, All-wise. S. 4:157-158
And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away! S. 9:30
The Muslim scripture also denies that Allah has children since he is a father to no one. In fact, the highest relationship one can have with Allah is that of a slave!
And they say: The Beneficent God has taken (to Himself) a son. Certainly you have made an abominable assertion The heavens may almost be rent thereat, and the earth cleave asunder, and the mountains fall down in pieces, That they ascribe a son to the Beneficent God. And it is not worthy of the Beneficent God that He should take (to Himself) a son. There is no one in the heavens and the earth but will come to the Beneficent God as a servant. S. 19:88-93
And they say: The Beneficent God has taken to Himself a son. Glory be to Him. Nay! they are honored servants. S. 21:26
How, then, could Shabir claim that the Quran affirms all of these Biblical truths? The answer is rather simple. In his haste to address Strobel’s question that the Quran is a document written centuries after the time of Christ, and is therefore an unreliable witness when it comes to issues concerning the life of the historical Jesus, Shabir had to prove to the audience that its testimony shouldn’t be discounted since it actually agrees with what the earliest records on the life of Jesus teach.
Shabir’s second mistake was to then interpret the NT teaching concerning Jesus in light of his Islamic presuppositions which prevented him from seeing how these very statements actually refute the Quran. This is why he erroneously assumed that Jesus’ Son of Man statements actually prove that Jesus was nothing more than a man when in point of fact this self-designation conclusively demonstrates that Jesus is a preexistent Divine Being. Jesus’ use of the Son of Man proves that the historical Jesus believed that he was a fully Divine Person who was appearing in human form, being the very same Divine figure that the prophet Daniel saw all nations worshiping as he rules over them forever.
In concluding we will now summarize the implications of Shabir’s assertions so the readers can see the problems that Shabir created for himself by trying to mislead the audience into thinking that the Quran actually confirms what the Gospels teach concerning Jesus.
According to Shabir the Quran confirms the following facts about Jesus.
- The Gospels are the written records of the very Gospel which God revealed to Jesus’ followers, and Christians should therefore judge by them.
- Jesus is the Divine Son of Man who reigns forever and shall be worshiped by all the nations (this would include Muhammad as well).
- Jesus is also the Son of Man who was killed by crucifixion in order to ransom the lives of many and who physically, bodily resurrected from the grave on the third day.
- Jesus is the Son of God who is higher than angels and men, being subject only to the Father.
- Jesus is the Son who can do nothing on his own initiative but can perfectly do whatever the Father does, such as give life and raise the dead etc.
Therefore, if Shabir is right that the Quran affirms all of these Biblical statements that he claims were made by the historical Jesus then Muhammad was wrong and is a false prophet since he denied Jesus’ Deity, his vicarious death on the cross, and did not believe that his god was a Father to anyone, especially the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
This is what happens when Muslim dawagandists like Shabir have to use lies and deception in order to defend falsehood and attack God’s true Word, the Holy Bible. The Triune Lord ends up shaming them by exposing their lies and causing them to sound like fools whenever they speak against his Word:
“Every word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. Do not add to his words, or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar.” Proverbs 30:5-6
“Why do the nations conspire and the peoples plot in vain? The kings of the earth take their stand and the rulers gather together against the LORD and against his Messiah/Christ. ‘Let us break their chains,’ they say, ‘and throw off their fetters.’ The One enthroned in heaven laughs; the Lord scoffs at them. Then he rebukes them in his anger and terrifies them in his wrath, saying, ‘I have installed my King on Zion, my holy hill.’ I will proclaim the decree of the LORD: He said to me, ‘You are my Son; today I have begotten you. Ask of me, and I will make the nations your inheritance, the ends of the earth your possession. You will rule them with an iron scepter; you will dash them to pieces like pottery.’ Therefore, you kings, be wise; be warned, you rulers of the earth. Serve the LORD with fear and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry and you be destroyed in your way, for his wrath can flare up in a moment. Blessed are all who take refuge in him.” Psalm 2:1-12
Addendum
The Desperate Polemics of Islam's Dawagandists
Bassam Zawadi contacted Shabir Ally to respond to my article exposing his slip. In so doing Zawadi shows that he didn’t understand my objection, nor did Shabir Ally for that matter. Zawadi begins his article by misrepresenting my argument:
He claims that Shabir Ally believes that the Qur'an affirms the authority of the four Gospels as fully divine. Shabir Ally replying back in email denies this charge completely:
Zawadi makes it more obvious with every article and “rebuttal” that he simply does not understand what he reads since that’s not quite what I said. I said that Shabir’s statements presuppose that the four Gospels are actually the Gospel which the Quran exhorts Christians to judge by. Can Zawadi ever present my statements or represent what I say accurately?
Zawadi then posts Ally’s reply:
Of course I believe, as do most Muslims, that the Quran both confirms the truth of that which was revealed in the previous scriptures and at the same time serves as a quality controller to expose the corruptions which human beings have introduced into God's Word. Sam takes the first part of this assertion, ignores the second part of that assertion, though this must by now be known to every reviewer of my debates, and builds a case on inferences he can make from the same.
Hence he proceeds by saying that this would mean that Shabir believes in the Gospels as they are, and therefore he believes in Jesus as God, and therefore he disbelieves the Quran which denies this. Since Shabir is still a Muslim he must be is lying in saying that the Quran confirms the Bible, etc. (Source)
This response leads me to wonder whether either of these gentlemen even understood my argument. I thought I had made it fully clear that by saying that the Quran confirms the Gospels, plural, Shabir made a mistake which cost him dearly. I stated quite plainly that in his haste to address Strobel’s question and to debunk historic Christian beliefs Shabir slipped and said that the Quran exhorts Christians to judge by the Gospels. Do either of these gentlemen understand that by saying that Shabir slipped I was basically acknowledging that Shabir made a mistake since he obviously doesn’t believe that the Gospels are synonymous with the Gospel revealed to Jesus?
With that said, I am fully aware of Ally’s position so there was no need for Zawadi to have contacted him to clarify what he believes concerning the Quran’s relationship to the previous Scriptures. However, nothing that Shabir says here addresses my point but actually ignores and distorts what I had written.
For instance, Shabir doesn’t address the fact that he expressly identified the Gospel which the Quran exhorts Christians to judge by as the Gospels. Sadly, Zawadi doesn't see how in saying this Shabir pretty much refutes what Zawadi wrote in response to Dr. White’s assertion that the author of the Quran may have mistakenly thought that the Gospel was a book written by Jesus:
Well it depends on what Gospel James White is talking about. If he is talking about the four Gospels, well then that is not what the Qur'an is even talking about to begin with. The Qur'an is speaking about the actual revelation sent from God to Jesus (peace be upon him). (The Arrogance and Ignorance of James White)
If the Quran isn’t speaking about the Gospels but is actually referring to the revelation sent from God to Jesus then how could Shabir say that the Quran exhorts Christians to judge by the Gospels?
More importantly, which of these two dawagandists should we believe? Is Shabir right that the Quran expects Christians to judge by the Gospels, plural, which means that Zawadi is wrong? Or is Zawadi correct that the Quran isn’t speaking of the Gospels at all, and therefore Shabir is mistaken?
That Shabir was correct, albeit unintentionally, and Zawadi is in error can be easily proven from simply reading the Quranic passage in context:
And We sent, following in their footsteps, Jesus son of Mary, confirming the Torah that was between his hands and We gave to him the Gospel, wherein is guidance and light, and confirming the Torah that was between his hands, as a guidance and an admonition unto the godfearing. So let the People of the Gospel judge according to what Allah has sent down therein. Whosoever judges not according to what Allah has sent down -- they are the ungodly. S. 5:46-47
This command to the People of the Gospel presupposes that the Christians at Muhammad’s time still had in their possession the very Gospel which God gave to Jesus; otherwise how could they be expected to judge by a revelation that no longer existed in its pristine form? In light of this fact the question that Zawadi has to address, but which he keeps avoiding, is what was the Gospel which the Christians of Muhammad’s time possessed? Weren’t these Christians reading the very NT Gospels which we still have in our possessions till this day? If not then can Zawadi provide any textual, historical and/or archaeological data proving that the Christians which the Quran is addressing were reading some other Gospel than the NT Gospels?
Shabir also failed to address the fact that he was the one who claimed that the Quran confirms all of the following “human attributes” of Christ:
- Jesus claimed to be the Son of Man.
- Jesus didn’t know everything since he said “that of that day and hour no one knows, not even the Son but the Father only” (cf. Mark 13:32).
- Jesus further said that, “I can of myself do nothing,” and “I do only as the Father has commanded me” (cf. John 5:19, 30).
- Jesus fell on his face and prayed to God (cf. Mark 14:36-38).
We already saw how these statements about Jesus which Shabir claims the Quran confirms actually prove the exact opposite of what Shabir contended in his dialogue with Mike Licona. These facts which Shabir himself pointed to establish that the historical Jesus believed that he is the Divine Son of Man and unique Son of God who is exalted above all creatures, being subject only to God the Father. Therefore, how can I be accused of lying or misrepresenting Shabir’s position when it was Shabir himself who argued that the Quran confirms these particular NT teachings?
Zawadi says that he has refuted my attempts to prove that Islam confirms the textual integrity of the Quran, though what he really meant is that he has responded to my argument that the Quran confirms the textual integrity of the Holy Bible. I invite the readers to peruse all of the articles and rebuttals that are found here and judge whether Zawadi has really been able to refute my case. Moreover, he links to Zaatari’s article where he misrepresents Jochen Katz’s argument to prove that even Katz refutes me on this point! In so doing Zawadi is once again simply confirming that he is unable to comprehend the arguments correctly and is therefore incapable of providing a meaningful response.
Lord willing, there will be further rebuttals to Zawadi’s “replies” in the near future.
Source: http://answering-islam.org/authors/shamoun/rebuttals/ally/gospels.html
IHS
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