I received an email some time ago from
a Muslim responding in general to my articles and this was my answer to him.
There are some items in his note that make no sense to me and the purpose of
the letter in the beginning is not clear to me. Nevertheless, it
will give you some idea of the thinking of the person as well as my responses.
He wrote: CHRISTIAN SAHADA FORMULA Acknowledging Muhammad SAW as the Messenger of God is a very sensitive case for Christians. And, of course, acknowledging that Jesus as the Son of God is a very sensitive case for Muslims. If Christians want to acknowledge that Muhammad SAW is the Messenger of God, then they want to be convinced about it, first.
1. Christian Sahada.
I am launching this Christian Sahada: As you know, Islam uses Sahada to clarify that someone has already accepted Islam. It sounds in English as: I acknowledge that there is no god but God. And I acknowledge that Muhammad is the Messenger of God.
By vowing this, a person legally, formally, officially, embraces Islam, and becomes Muslim. Sahada is the first step and the 1st rite that one must go thru before he becomes a complete Muslim. Thus, what is the Christian Sahada? Sound like: "I declare that Jesus is son of God, and Paul is the Primary Apostle"? Little no big No. Not al all! Here I am launching you the Christian Sahada, which consists of two statements.
Christian Sahada Statement I:
All Christians believe that Jesus is the son of God. They are conditioned by the Christian life to get used to think and to react as if Jesus was son of God. All Christian leaders claim that the sonship of Jesus is clearly written in Holy Bible, NT-OT. Even, according to Bible, Jesus himself claims that he is the son of God.
The question is: how trustworthy the Bible (NT-OT) is? Your society says: that trustworthy!! How convincing!
Understand this with all your heart and soul:
First there is Judaism, and Judaic community. To that community, God sends down Jesus. The coming of Jesus is not as smooth as God plans. The coming of Jesus breaks the Judaic community in 2: those who believe that Jesus is sent by Above, and those who deny Jesus. Jesus himself in his life detects that Judaic priests corrupt all the Scriptures; therefore God sends Jesus down to fix the Scriptures. After years of Jesus life, Judaic people crucify Jesus. And still Jesus can't fix the Scriptures even after the day of his crucifixion. Even though the coming of Jesus creates new religion, Christianity, but the Judaism still lives on with its corrupted Scriptures, according to what Jesus detects. What you have to learn and analyse in here?
My response: You are forgetting and omitting so much in your assertions. You are also falsely describing them. You are also diverting attention from one issue to another one.
First, Christians believe that Jesus is the Son of God because there is evidence for it, not because they have been conditioned that way. If you think only in terms of conditioning, how many Muslims would flee the Muslim culture if they were free to do so? Many are there not because of serious belief and evidence, but because of conditioning and the culture.
Your second comment about “society says that the Bible is trustworthy.” I am afraid that you do not understand Western society. There are lots of pagans in America who would reject your comment. We have atheists and very liberal people who reject the Bible.
Your comment “the coming of Jesus is not as smooth as God plans” is based on a misunderstanding of the Bible. I don’t think you have really read the Bible. Your comments seem like normal Muslim propaganda. If you would read Isaiah 53 you would know the death of the Messiah was prophesied 800 years before the coming of the Messiah. So it can’t be a surprise to God. That was a part of his plan.
He wrote: You said, Jesus himself in his life detects that Judaic priests corrupt all the Scriptures; therefore God sends Jesus down to fix the Scriptures.”
My response: I don’t think you have read my statements correctly. I would never affirm that the priests, nor the Pharisees, nor Jews in general ever corrupted the Scriptures. Neither would I have stated that “God sends Jesus down to fix the Scriptures.” I do not know which article you have referred to in this statement for it seems way out of my belief system.
Again, you have a lack of understanding on the issue. The Scriptures were not corrupt. Jesus did not say they were corrupt. He declared that they testified concerning Him. The Dead Sea Scrolls turned up a complete scroll of Isaiah, for example, that is dated 100 BC and it is the same as the later scrolls. Jesus’ charge against the Jews was that their oral traditions of interpretations were man made.
The Hebrew Scriptures have not changed. It is a phony charge to claim that they have and you should be honest enough to acknowledge that. The idea that the Bible was corrupted arose in Islam after Muslim scholars could not find Mohammed prophesied in the Scriptures.
Moreover, Jesus did not come to “correct the Scriptures” as you claim. He came to die, establish a New Covenant (Jeremiah 31:31), and reveal the real nature of God’s love.
In an article "The Charge of Distortion of Jewish and Christian Scriptures" by Abdullah Saeed [Muslim World; Fall 2002, Vol. 92, Issue 3/4, p. 419], he wrote,
“Since the "authorized" scriptures of Jews and Christians remain very much today as they existed at the time of the Prophet, it is difficult to argue that the Qur'anic references to Tawrat and Injil were only to the "pure" Tawrat and Injil as existed at the time of Moses and Jesus, respectively. If the texts have remained more or less as they were in the seventh century CE, the reverence the Qur'an has shown them at the time should be retained even today. Many interpreters of the Qur'an, from Tabari to Razi to Ibn Taymiyya and even Qutb, appear to be inclined to share this view. The wholesale dismissive attitude held by many Muslims in the modern period towards the scriptures of Judaism and Christianity do not seem have the support of either the Qur'an or the major figures of tafsir.”
He wrote: First, sending Jesus down to Judaic community and that Jesus detects that Scriptures are all corrupted -by Judaic priests / agents- means that God and Jesus himself admit, acknowledge that Israel is all depraved! Jesus finds Scriptures corrupted! It means,Israel
My response: Your logic is twisted. Because some Jews rejected Jesus that makes them depraved? By the same reason, Muslims who reject Jesus as the Son of God are depraved. Mohammed rejected Jesus as the Son of God and therefore he was depraved. Is that the kind of logic you want? What about all the people in Mecca who rejected Mohammed? That makes him depraved? How did Mohammed deal with the Meccans? He returned with a force of warriors and forced himself on the city.
He wrote: Secondly, the community of Judaic breaks in 2: half denies Jesus, another acknowledges Jesus. How could this be? I mean, if indeed the coming of Jesus is already written, foretold, forecast in Scriptures, why all the priests and all Judaic community refuse Jesus? Isn't that mean that in Scriptures, there is never a single line that foretells that someone by the name Jesus is coming? In this case, Christians stress that Israel erase the line foretelling the coming of Jesus. But Judaic community stress that the followers of Jesus make this up. The question is: who is right? The followers of Jesus, or Judaic people who deny Jesus? Let me answer this: both are mistaken. The problem lies in: the depravity of Israel. Once the Israel is depraved, then forever all products / materials brought, kept by them are all questioned and even dangerous. Further: Christians accuse that Judaism is false. Jews accuse that Christian is false. Which one is right? As you know, both Christian and Judaism are born in the same cradle, in the same quality of people. Answer is: both are false! Case closed!
My Response: You have a conspiracy theory about Jews and Christians that is simply off the wall. No Christian has ever said that the Jews erased a line of Scripture. There are many prophecies in the Old Testament about the coming Messiah. He is not named specifically, but he is named in terms of character, “his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.” Isaiah 9:6. Jesus claimed to be all of this. If you would read the New Testament you would see all of this.
You are wrong in your commentary. You do not separate out the Old Testament Scriptures from the Oral tradition that was built up by the Pharisees and others. Jesus himself declared the Old Testament Scriptures truthful. Do you want to call Jesus a liar? He condemned the Oral tradition but He said search the scriptures for they testify of me. Judaism was true as far as it went, but there were those Jews who did not acknowledge Him as Messiah. How could Jesus claim the Scripture testified to Him if they were corrupted? Remember the first Christians were Jewish believers who accepted Him as Messiah and Savior. Remember also that the apostles quoted the Old Testament many times in a similar fashion that Jesus did.
He wrote: Third, in his life, Jesus in a sermon on a hill to Israel, states this: Israel! Your forefathers murdered all (ancient) prophets. And you! If you are not those murderers, so you are the descendants of those murderers...What is that mean? Jesus himself acknowledges that Israel is depraved. The sermon of Jesus is bottom-lining some fact for the whole world thatIsrael
My Response: What kind of reasoning is this? Because some prophets were killed all the rest are to be regarded as depraved? If we apply the same reasoning to Muslim history we can conclude the same. For example, when Muslims invaded India 300,000 Indian men were slaughtered because they did not know what to do with prisoners. Over 60 million Christians were slain in the conquest of Christian North Africa, 80 million Hindus were slain in the invasion of India, 10 million Buddhists were killed along the silk route, in Africa over 120 million have died due to Jihad, and this means about 270 million people were killed in the last 1400 years and is still going on. Now given your logic, Muslims are depraved, all Muslim materials are false, and we should be suspicious of all Muslims. Therefore Muslims give us no reason to be respected. Muslims are always depraved. Is this your logic? Go here for the stats.
He wrote: Fourth, if you insist that Israel is not depraved, or there is nothing happens in the way of heaven, then there ain't got to be Judaism and Christian side by side under the sky! If Judaic community / Israel are honest, then the coming of Jesus would be the ending days for Judaism. The fact differs. They keep the Judaism and all Judaic practices alive as if Jesus was telling lies. I want you to answer this: is it that Jesus who tells lies, or Jews who hide the truth? If you can't answer that (and of course -and I believe- you can't answer that), at least you know the problem and the situation, the background. There is one major bottom-line Jesus gives you: Jesus himself never trusts Israel / Judaic anymore! And if Jesus never trusts Judaic people, so why do you believe in them? Jesus is the best example for you, in this case.
My Response: I would suggest that you get better information on this issue by reading the book of Romans, chapter 9-11, “I say then, Did God cast off his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God did not cast off his people which he foreknew.” (Rom. 11:1-2) Your conclusion at the end of your paragraph raises the same kind of question as above. First, to say that Jesus never trusts Jews is an error. Jesus loves not only the Jews, but He also loves you. Why should one hold grudges against a people for what their fathers did? This is one of the problems of the Muslim community: there is no forgiveness, only revenge. Jesus taught forgiveness, even on the Cross when he was crucified he prayed, “Father, forgive them....” If Muslims would so this, there would be no blood revenge.
Can you prove that Jesus lied? What is the evidence? What about the fact that Mohammed indicated one could lie and deceive others for purposes of war, and killing?
Note the following: Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah: Allah's Apostle said, "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab)." The Prophet said, "You may say it." ... (Sahih al-Bukhari 5.369)
He wrote: Fifth, not long time after Jesus' sermon that stresses the depravity of Israel, Jesus is captured, arrested, tortured, crucified and murdered on a cross as if Jesus was a crime. All what Jesus warns, happens to himself. It means, the sermon of Jesus affects nothing toIsrael
My Response: You have made sweeping statements that are incorrect. First, God foretold what would happen to the Messiah, Isaiah 53 as an example. Second, thousands of Jews believed the Gospel, the Good news about the resurrection and they carried the message of hope and forgiveness to other Jews scattered in various parts of the Roman Empire, and that message spilled over to the non-Jews, the Gentiles. God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself. The incorporation of the Gentiles was also foretold in the Old Testament. Third, your reasoning also can reflect on Mohammed. Was he a liar? Did he deceive people in claiming a revelation?
I would hope your comments about Jesus being crucified and about the resurrection are true for you in spite of the fact that the Qur’an denies it. What do you really agree with, the Qur’an or the New Testament?
He wrote: Sixth, most of all about the crucifixion, this is not just the leaders of Israel who decide (based on their depravity) the crucifixion, but all entire nation of Israel is so enthusiasm for Jesus crucifixion. None of them who feel sorry for Jesus crucified (except a little few; those who are in the inner circle of Jesus life: his mother, family, his followers). It strongly brings you and all bodies a clear clue and hint to understand how depraved entire Israel is!
My Reponse: How can you say that it was the entire nation? The whole nation was not in Jerusalem when he was crucified! You are condemning a whole people because of the actions of the leaders. Your wholesale condemnation of the Jewish people comes out of the influence of the Qur’an on your thinking. If you compare the number of Jews who have won Nobel prizes in the sciences with the number of Muslims who have won these prizes you will see the promise to Abraham coming true.... “I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and be thou a blessing; and I will bless them that bless thee, and him that curseth thee will I curse: and in thee shall all the families of the earth be blessed.” (Gen. 12:2-3)
You have been blessed by the Jewish people even though you don’t want to acknowledge it.
Your reasoning is misguided. Mohammed is responsible for the killing of a whole tribe of Jewish men, and selling the rest into slavery. On your reasoning one should say that all Muslims are depraved because of this. I would hope you would reject such sweeping generalizations, not only for Muslims but also for everyone else including Jews.
He wrote: Seventh, in the movie Ten Commandment, the screen shows us the depravity of Israel. After they are rescued by God from Egyptian bondage and from the Red Sea, they create and worship another idol just when Moses is away to meet God for Ten Commandments. What is that mean? Israel is so depraved! How could books of them be reliable to believe in?
My Response: First, don’t use movies for your understanding of Jewish or Christian history. Hollywood is interested in making money, not converts. Have you ever done anything contrary to Muslim beliefs? The Jews were recently liberated from slavery. They were on their way to learning about God and what it all means. Now, not all the people turned to idolatry. God’s judgement came on them but He did not give up on them because of his promise to Abraham. The books are reliable because they tell the truth, they don’t whitewash it. If you will read the Old Testament story you will discover that Hollywood did not stick to the script of the Bible.
He wrote: Eight, Jesus captured, tortured, and chained for crucifixion. In jail, there is another crime names Barabas. According to Israel tradition, if there are two crimes to be crucified, then both can't be crucified, only one can. So, the court will have the people to vote, which crime is to be crucified. The people vote for Jesus to be crucified, and vote Barabas to be released. Jesus? The teacher of morality? The one who sets free the woman-adulterer from stoning to death? The one who feeds the poor? The one who heals the blind and leprosy? The one who brings life back to the death? What's wrong with Israel? You got to know that only the depravity that can make Barabas set free and Jesus set to death! The depravity I say, not EXTOLMENT!
My response: You are wrong about two people can’t be crucified, only one can. There were two thieves crucified with Jesus, one on each side. Because some people screamed for his crucifixion that does not mean that everyone since that time who is Jewish should be condemned. Jesus died for your sins and mine, not just because of those actions. Moreover, you cannot blame generations following for the crucifixion. Actually, it was your sins and my sins involved in his death.
He wrote: Ninth, it must be clear for being logic: the Evangel, Torah, Psalms are corrupted by Israel. There will be no sufficient reason to believe that Bible (NT - OT) is all pure and authentic. Both Israel and their Bible (NT - OT) are not subjects to believe in as history shows their depravity. Just cling to the history / fact, not to the system of faith. Clinging to the faith is the second matter; the first is cling to the fact!! Or, can any of Christians (or Jews as well) determine which verse of Bible (NT - OT) is as pure as it is first revealed? Or, are they determining that all verses in Bible (NT - OT) are trustworthy? If so, what about the depravity of Israel? Isn't there any correlation between the trustworthiness of the Bible (NT - OT) and the Israel depravity? How come? Where do all Christians (and Jews as well) position the depravity of Israel in the presence of Bible (NT - OT)?
My response: “Lo! We inspire thee as We inspired Noah and the prophets after him, as We inspired Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the tribes, and Jesus and Job and Jonah and Aaron and Solomon, and as We imparted unto David the Psalms; And messengers We have mentioned unto thee before and messengers We have not mentioned unto thee; and Allah spake directly unto Moses;” (4:163-164, Pickthall) “Let the People of the Gospel judge by that which Allah hath revealed therein. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are evil-livers.” (5:47, Pickthall)
Please follow my comments closely. If the Qur’an could say this about the Scriptures when Mohammed lived, then we are talking about trustworthy Scriptures. The only way you can defeat this is to say Mohammed is a liar, which you will not do. We have copies of the New Testament that go back to the third century AD, and fragments that are even earlier. There are no attempts to erase any line from the Bible. I don’t need to repeat the issue of the depravity of Israel again.
On the other hand, how do we know the Qur’an is correct? There were a number of copies circulating following Mohammed’s death. There were people who knew some suras that others did not. There were people who were killed in battle who knew suras. Moreover, all except one copy of the Qur’an were burned. How do we know that it was the right one?
The issue of Abrogation of suras in the Qur’an is a serious problem. Muslim theologians assert that no fewer than 124 more peaceful verses were abrogated. Does this not pose serious questions about the reliability of the Qur’an or Mohammed, or both? Does it not raise questions about the nature of Allah who could not get it right the first time? Was Allah or Mohammed making it up as the situation demanded?
He wrote: Tenth, David had sex with someone's wife? And sent his men to kill the husband? Lot had sex with his daughters? Jacob wrestled with God? Jesus says: "before Abraham, I am"? There is no foretell in Bible (NT - OT) about the coming of Muhammad SAW? Of course there are lines in Bible (NT - OT) that foretell the coming of Muhammad SAW, but Israelites erase them! If you deny such lines ever existed in Bible (NT - OT) but Israel erased them, so what about Israel denial on the coming of Jesus?
My Response: I am surprised that you raised the question about sex. Did David get away with it? No, God sent the prophet Nathan to convict him of sin and God brought judgment on David. What about Mohammed’s sex life? I can say that David sinned. Can you say Mohammed sinned in sexual matters?
How can you sayIsrael
Jews do not deny the existence of Jesus, some of them did not accept Him as Messiah and Son of God. But thousands did and they spread the good news all throughout the Empire.
He wrote: Eleventh, is there a magic saying: yes Israel is depraved and not a subject to believe in since the beginning of time. But, when Christian arisen, there will be an exception: Israel would be so honest only this time? Is that so?
My Response: Your comment does not make sense to me. If you wish to explain it further I would be happy to comment on it.
He wrote: Twelfth, as Jesus is 'perfectly' crucified on the cross suffering the death, something comes to his senses: "in this way, it is impossible that all my teachings would be preserved and protected. Their depravity crucifies and double-crosses Me, then the same thing will torture and twist My Words...." Isn't that so, my brother Christians?
My Response: How can you put your words in Jesus’ mind? Would you want anyone to put words in Mohammed’s mind like “I don’t really believe all this, but it gives me power, women, and booty.” What you hear from the cross is, “Father, forgive them.” Putting your words into the story is as bad as the words you would not like put into Mohammed story.
He wrote: Because this is impossible: the depraved Israel crucifies Jesus, (and murders all ancient prophets, and twist the ancient holy books)
My Response: Not all ancient prophets were murdered, and you have no evidence that Israel twisted the holy books. If you insist you declare Jesus to be a liar, and the Qur’an has a lie in it. Which way do you want to go?
He wrote: but the depraved Israel preserves His Words... Apparently, the depravity of Israel creates, and causes the chaos in re-writing the holy teachings. As Jesus is suffering death on the cross, then can Jesus put a hope too much that His Words would be everlasting in the hands of Israel since His name is not everlasting in the hands of Israel? And you, my Christian brother! Can you put a hope too much, that Jesus' Words would be everlasting in the hands of depraved Israel?
My Response: This has been dealt with above.
He wrote: Seems to me that I hear you say: "with or without hope, the words of 'JESUS GOD' (Jesus is god? How many gods do you have since Ten Commandment states for you that -let there be no God but your God. Where do you position the Ten Commandment in 'Jesus god'?) are indeed everlasting as the Bible states that in clear words". No, my brother! Never cling anymore to what your faith says. Just cling to what happened factually!!!!!! You are not a child anymore. You are grownup now! Put your feet back on the ground. Leave the cradle. Leave the bed-stories. Dear my Christian brother, you are not there when Jesus is crucified to know and to see what is really going on.
My Response: Christians have always affirmed belief in one God who has revealed Himself as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The essence or the nature of God is one, the persons three. If you read the New Testament you will be aware of God’s revelation of Himself. This is from the beginning of the life of Jesus.
Your comment about “cling to what happened factually!!!!” is worth looking at. The Qur’an claims things that never happened. Will you be realistic and deal with facts? The Qur’an claims that Jesus spoke from the cradle and as a child made a clay pigeon, breathed into it, and it became alive. The Gospel of John, written long before this Gnostic story circulated and was heard by Mohammed, declares that Jesus’ first miracle was done at a wedding in Cana of Galilee. You have a choice of a historical fact of Cana or a fable that is false. One is real and one is a bedtime story in the Qur’an. You can’t make a fable into a fact.
Similarly, you were not in Mecca or Medina when Mohammed was there to see if he was a genuine prophet. How can you trust the words of a man who robbed, killed, gave permission to lie and deceive and other sins?
He wrote: Dear my brother. You always convince yourself that the words of God in Bible (NT - OT) are everlasting as each verse therein states that. And you are so inspired and powered with that conviction. As I have told you before, one thing you should know, if indeed each line in Bible (NT - OT) is everlasting since the beginning, so why the Judaic agents deny Jesus?
My Response: This may be hard for you to understand since Muslims do not allow freedom. The Pharisees and Sadducees rejected Jesus because of their position in power. When you read the story the Gospels declare that these people were afraid that Rome would come and take away their positions. They were free to rebel against God as they were free to rebel in the Old Testament.
What kind of freedom is in Islam? Can you reject the imam’s words? Can you have different views on the Qur’an? Can you allow non-Muslims to exist in your society?
Do you want Sharia law to be introduced against non-Muslims? Muslims have not learned that forced conversion, forced worship, forced conforming is not real. God is not pleased with this and cannot be fooled. Only the Devil would be pleased with forced worship.
He wrote: And why Jesus sees so many corruptions in the Scriptures? Why Jesus always gets involved in quarrels with the rabbis on sensitive issues? Aren't they familiar with the ideas Jesus brings? Why everything Jesus teaches is so strange to all rabbis, since Jesus teaches nothing but what lives in Bible (NT - OT), things they possess in their hands? Dear my Christian brother. Simply, there is nothing in your Bible (NT - OT), which you can hold on to.
My Response: I have already answered this above. The Bible is trustworthy. Even if I am disobedient to some command in the Bible, that does not make it untrue. It is true although I may be disobedient.
He wrote: Thirteenth. The Proves of twisting: 1. In his life, Jesus worships God and only God, which means, Jesus is not a god.
My Response: Your choice of words is unfortunate. Read the real story in Luke, 3:21-22 , “While everyone else was being baptized, Jesus himself was baptized. Then as he prayed, the sky opened up, and the Holy Spirit came down upon him in the form of a dove. A voice from heaven said, "You are my own dear Son, and I am pleased with you."
In this passage Jesus is talking with His father which is what praying is about. You will also note that the Christian idea of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are in these verses. The Trinity is not something that Christians invented, the facts about it are in the early documents.
He wrote: 2. In Christianity, Jesus is indeed god. In his life, Jesus states that he won't make any changes in religion, won't come for new religion.
My Response: Matthew 5:17 “Don't suppose that I came to do away with the Law and the Prophets. I did not come to do away with them, but to give them their full meaning.” To give them their full meaning does not do away with them. This is the fulfillment, not the destruction of the Law. Matthew 28:18-20 indicates that Jesus said to his followers,
“Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.” (Matthew 28:19-20)
He wrote: 3. In Christianity, Jesus is known as the founder of new religion. In his life, Jesus teaches that all men are the sons of God.
My Response: What is the basis of this statement? Jesus said to the Pharisees,“Your father is the devil, and you do exactly what he wants. He has always been a murderer and a liar. There is nothing truthful about him. He speaks on his own, and everything he says is a lie. Not only is he a liar himself, but he is also the father of all lies.” John 8:44
All people are a creation of God, but only those who give themselves to Jesus are the sons and daughters of God. John 1:12-13 says,
“But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.”
To be a child of God means you have to receive Jesus as Lord.
He wrote: 4. In Christianity, Jesus is the only son of God. Jesus in his life adopts Ten Commandments that says: let there be no God but your God, the only God, God of heaven and earth. In Christian life, beside God, Jesus is indeed god supported by and on any stupid theory / rhetoric. Christians often say: "O my dear Jesus GOD..." -or- "O Jesus my GOD... " Or in complete, "God Father (it is God), God Jesus, and God Holy Spirit.... AMEN".
My Response: If Jesus is the Son of God, or God embodied, what is wrong with addressing prayer to Him? He is God. I would suggest that you read the Gospel of John and see the real story,
“Don't you believe that I am one with the Father and that the Father is one with me? What I say isn't said on my own. The Father who lives in me does these things. Have faith in me when I say that the Father is one with me and that I am one with the Father. Or else have faith in me simply because of the things I do.” (John 14:10-11)
He wrote: 5. In his life, Jesus adopts Ten Commandments that says: never make any idol like My Creation, in sky, in ocean and beneath the ground. In Christian life, even churches adopt, make, and collect so many statues like His Creations.
My Response: The issue in the Ten Commandments is that you shall not worship them. Making pictures of anything of beauty is not idolatry. An idol is something worshiped, a picture is not worshiped but frames a lovely memory of a person, landscape, or event.
He wrote: 6. In his life, Jesus never teaches some secularism. In your Christian community life now, secularism is indeed a strong value that lives among churches and monasteries.
My Response: What do you mean by secularism? I know what it is, but do you? What is your point?
He wrote: 7. In his life, Jesus never launches war. In Christian life, war is the only 'instrument' to rule the whole world and faith; we all Muslims in the East must suffer bloody war year after year which launched by your people. While your people are launching war against our people, your priests Christianised our helpless children, brothers and sisters.
My Response: You should read the history of Islam. I know you probably have a mentality that Muslims never start anything wrong, but Mohammed and Islam started war on the pagans of Arabia. After that Muslims invaded the west, captured Jerusalem, Egypt, North Africa, Spain and France. You need to read the shame that Muslims brought to the West. The Crusades were only attempts to regain the Holy Land because it was once the cradle of the beginning of Christianity. I hope you don’t have the mental mind set that you can’t accept the fact of Muslim terrorism. The air craft crashes intoTwin Towers
He wrote: 8. In his life, Jesus teaches that all women shall stay at home (women seclusion). In your Christian life, churches and your social organizations send women out to have outdoor activities.
My Response: What evidence do you give for this? Consider the gospels, Matthew 15:38, “There were four thousand men who ate, not counting the women and children.” Women have lots of freedom in Christian history, here they were out with Jesus along with their children. There is no command that women be secluded. It is an injustice to women to have their secluded at home and having to wear a black tent covering their whole body in public. This is a shame, and you ought to preach against it. You should persuade your imam to preach about the evils done to women in Islam.
He wrote: 9. In his life, Jesus teaches and adopts circumcision. In Christian life, circumcision denied. Thanks to Paul.
My Response: You should re-read the story of circumcision in the letters of Paul. Jesus really did not talk about circumcision except to make a point that it came before Moses. The issue was whether one had to be circumcised to enter the Kingdom of God, and the answer was no. Faith in Jesus was required instead.
He wrote: 10. In his life, Jesus buries the death with shroud. Even they shrouded Jesus' body to bury him. In Christian life, the death is not shrouded. They dress them with decent cloth instead.
My Response: Your point is not clear. What is the issue?
He wrote: 11. Jesus stones the adulterers. In Christian life, adulterers (prostitutes) are free, stoning the adulterers rejected.
My Response: Where did Jesus stone adulterers? Where in the New Testament is stoning adultery commanded? You are imposing Muslim values on the life of Jesus.
He wrote: 12. Jesus only teaches Israel. In Christian life, churches teach Christianity to all nations.
My Response: The Messiah came toIsrael
He wrote: 13. Jesus and his disciples don't sing. Now, all Christians sing.
My Response: How do you know they did not sing? “But the chief priests and the teachers of the Law of Moses were angry when they saw his miracles and heard the children shouting praises to the Son of David. The men said to Jesus, "Don't you hear what those children are saying?" "Yes, I do!" Jesus answered. "Don't you know that the Scriptures say, 'Children and infants will sing praises'?" (Matt. 21:15-16) What do you think the Psalms of the Old Testament were? Many of them were praises to Yahweh. Mohammed was against music and fun.
He wrote: Why can't Christian and its people live with harmony with Jesus life? Thus, if all Christians now are inspired to live in harmony with Jesus life then based on what sources do they have? Bible (NT - OT)? Church constitutions?
My Response: There is only one source for the Christian faith and that is the Bible, predominantly the New Testament. Jesus is our Lord and Savior.
He wrote: Fourteenth. Even until today, Jews don't believe in all materials of Christians. And Christians don't believe in all materials of Judaism. The question is, who is wrong? Who is right? The only answer is, b-o-t-h are wrong! How could you be so blind while 'the proof is in the pudding'? Both Jews don't believe in Christian materials and Christians don't believe in Judaism materials only show you that you, Christians and Jews are in suspicion one to each other. Christians say that there is something wrong in Judaism, and so do Jews. It only derives us to say, that Israel is so depraved, and the blood of Israel corrupted the revelation! That's the only conclusion you can take. This is not a possibility. But this is what happens 'in an egg'; you don't and you can't see it, but it is.
My Response: Your logic is wrong. If Judaism is wrong, why must Christianity be wrong also?
One could say Judaism, Islam and Christianity don’t agree and they are all wrong. I cannot say that they are all wrong, but Christianity completes Judaism, and there is no place for Islam as a better religion. Your antisemitism comes through in these comments again.
Moreover, Christians do not reject the Old Testament as being useless. Jesus quoted the Old Testament and the stories of the Old Testament are the stories of the journey of faith and sometimes lack of faith. These things were written for our encouragement. Many of the New Testament letters as well as the Gospels quote the Old Testament.
He wrote: Fifteen. Jesus says toIsrael
What is that mean? Why must Jesus say that to his people? Isn't that a sign of depravity? Do all Muhammad's followers deny Him in that early?
My Response: Please read the real story: “Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad. But after I am risen again, I will go before you intoGalilee .
Peter answered and said unto him, Though all menshall be offended
because of thee, yet will I never be offended. Jesus
said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow,
thou shalt deny me thrice. Peter said unto him, Though I should die
with thee, yet will I not deny thee. Likewise also said all the
disciples. (Matthew 26:31-35)
Please remember that this was a denial for short time. Peter was transformed by the appearance of Jesus in his resurrection and became a leader in the early church at Jerusalem later giving his life for his faith.
He wrote: The conclusion on Christian Sahada Statement I is D.O.I that stands for Depravity Of Israel. Dear my Scriptural Brother. I would like to tell you, that this is not about what your faith is trying to convince and inspire you. But this is all about what Israel is. This is all about Israel, their depravity. Talking about religion and its promises, of course would always be an interesting session.
My Response: I am sorry that you are so adamant that Israel is the problem. Mohammed’s hatred of the Jews has been taught universally in Islam. Blaming all Jews for what one group of people did is like blaming all Muslims for 9-11. Is this reasonable? Logical? Absolutely not. Mohammed’s hatred of the Jews was due to their dis-trust of him. They knew he was not a legitimate prophet and he could not stand their rejection. Their rejection undermined his authority in Medina.
He wrote: Not just Christian that is interesting, but also Hinduism, Buddhism and Islam are interesting. But what is about the background of each religion? Like a person. What he promises you all sounds like heaven comes to you. But what is he?
My Response: I would suggest that you read these articles (1,2) and see the answers.
He wrote: Simply, all the points above show us that Israelites are depraved.
My Response: Fortunately you have not proven your point!!! You have shown your prejudices, bias, and faulty logic.
He wrote: Unfortunately, this nation is the one who conveys the Revelations. Then, is it possible that the Revelations are preserved?
No matter how strong your conviction is, still there is nothing you can do about the depravity of Israel. And thus, the depravity must have affected the purity of Bible. You can make a proof that Bible is preserved. But the question are,
1. Which Bible?
2. Where do you position the depravity of Israel in this matter?
Is it possible for a nation who are accustomed to murder all the prophets, to preserve their Books?
My Response: First, you don’t give any credit to God for the preservation of the Scriptures. Second, you haven’t proven that the Jews corrupted the Bible. Your claim would make Jesus to be a liar, or deceived. Third, you have not mentioned the fact that Satan got his message into the Qur’an: “Have ye thought upon Al-Lat and Al-'Uzza And Manat, the third, the other are yours the males and His the females? (Sura 53)” Is this purity?
Fourth, you might raise the question in your self, if Satan inspired part of the Qur’an, what keeps one from asking if Satan inspired more of it, like hating the Jews, secluding women, the concept of Jihad and other things?
I am not sure why you wrote to me. However, I have taken time to answer many of these issues. Let me urge you to pray to God that He will show you who is the Savior.
God loves you and wants to deliver you from the slavery of false teaching. God came in the person of Jesus to bring forgiveness, peace, and the promise of the Holy Spirit to live in your life. On top of it, Jesus promises you the gift of everlasting life in His presence. I hope you will come to accept His gift. I send this to you with a prayer that God will open your eyes to Him.
Blessings.... Dallas M. Roark, Ph.D.
Source : http://answering-islam.org/authors/roark/letter1.html
He wrote: CHRISTIAN SAHADA FORMULA Acknowledging Muhammad SAW as the Messenger of God is a very sensitive case for Christians. And, of course, acknowledging that Jesus as the Son of God is a very sensitive case for Muslims. If Christians want to acknowledge that Muhammad SAW is the Messenger of God, then they want to be convinced about it, first.
1. Christian Sahada.
I am launching this Christian Sahada: As you know, Islam uses Sahada to clarify that someone has already accepted Islam. It sounds in English as: I acknowledge that there is no god but God. And I acknowledge that Muhammad is the Messenger of God.
By vowing this, a person legally, formally, officially, embraces Islam, and becomes Muslim. Sahada is the first step and the 1st rite that one must go thru before he becomes a complete Muslim. Thus, what is the Christian Sahada? Sound like: "I declare that Jesus is son of God, and Paul is the Primary Apostle"? Little no big No. Not al all! Here I am launching you the Christian Sahada, which consists of two statements.
Christian Sahada Statement I:
All Christians believe that Jesus is the son of God. They are conditioned by the Christian life to get used to think and to react as if Jesus was son of God. All Christian leaders claim that the sonship of Jesus is clearly written in Holy Bible, NT-OT. Even, according to Bible, Jesus himself claims that he is the son of God.
The question is: how trustworthy the Bible (NT-OT) is? Your society says: that trustworthy!! How convincing!
Understand this with all your heart and soul:
First there is Judaism, and Judaic community. To that community, God sends down Jesus. The coming of Jesus is not as smooth as God plans. The coming of Jesus breaks the Judaic community in 2: those who believe that Jesus is sent by Above, and those who deny Jesus. Jesus himself in his life detects that Judaic priests corrupt all the Scriptures; therefore God sends Jesus down to fix the Scriptures. After years of Jesus life, Judaic people crucify Jesus. And still Jesus can't fix the Scriptures even after the day of his crucifixion. Even though the coming of Jesus creates new religion, Christianity, but the Judaism still lives on with its corrupted Scriptures, according to what Jesus detects. What you have to learn and analyse in here?
My response: You are forgetting and omitting so much in your assertions. You are also falsely describing them. You are also diverting attention from one issue to another one.
First, Christians believe that Jesus is the Son of God because there is evidence for it, not because they have been conditioned that way. If you think only in terms of conditioning, how many Muslims would flee the Muslim culture if they were free to do so? Many are there not because of serious belief and evidence, but because of conditioning and the culture.
Your second comment about “society says that the Bible is trustworthy.” I am afraid that you do not understand Western society. There are lots of pagans in America who would reject your comment. We have atheists and very liberal people who reject the Bible.
Your comment “the coming of Jesus is not as smooth as God plans” is based on a misunderstanding of the Bible. I don’t think you have really read the Bible. Your comments seem like normal Muslim propaganda. If you would read Isaiah 53 you would know the death of the Messiah was prophesied 800 years before the coming of the Messiah. So it can’t be a surprise to God. That was a part of his plan.
He wrote: You said, Jesus himself in his life detects that Judaic priests corrupt all the Scriptures; therefore God sends Jesus down to fix the Scriptures.”
My response: I don’t think you have read my statements correctly. I would never affirm that the priests, nor the Pharisees, nor Jews in general ever corrupted the Scriptures. Neither would I have stated that “God sends Jesus down to fix the Scriptures.” I do not know which article you have referred to in this statement for it seems way out of my belief system.
Again, you have a lack of understanding on the issue. The Scriptures were not corrupt. Jesus did not say they were corrupt. He declared that they testified concerning Him. The Dead Sea Scrolls turned up a complete scroll of Isaiah, for example, that is dated 100 BC and it is the same as the later scrolls. Jesus’ charge against the Jews was that their oral traditions of interpretations were man made.
The Hebrew Scriptures have not changed. It is a phony charge to claim that they have and you should be honest enough to acknowledge that. The idea that the Bible was corrupted arose in Islam after Muslim scholars could not find Mohammed prophesied in the Scriptures.
Moreover, Jesus did not come to “correct the Scriptures” as you claim. He came to die, establish a New Covenant (Jeremiah 31:31), and reveal the real nature of God’s love.
In an article "The Charge of Distortion of Jewish and Christian Scriptures" by Abdullah Saeed [Muslim World; Fall 2002, Vol. 92, Issue 3/4, p. 419], he wrote,
“Since the "authorized" scriptures of Jews and Christians remain very much today as they existed at the time of the Prophet, it is difficult to argue that the Qur'anic references to Tawrat and Injil were only to the "pure" Tawrat and Injil as existed at the time of Moses and Jesus, respectively. If the texts have remained more or less as they were in the seventh century CE, the reverence the Qur'an has shown them at the time should be retained even today. Many interpreters of the Qur'an, from Tabari to Razi to Ibn Taymiyya and even Qutb, appear to be inclined to share this view. The wholesale dismissive attitude held by many Muslims in the modern period towards the scriptures of Judaism and Christianity do not seem have the support of either the Qur'an or the major figures of tafsir.”
He wrote: First, sending Jesus down to Judaic community and that Jesus detects that Scriptures are all corrupted -by Judaic priests / agents- means that God and Jesus himself admit, acknowledge that Israel is all depraved! Jesus finds Scriptures corrupted! It means,
My response: Your logic is twisted. Because some Jews rejected Jesus that makes them depraved? By the same reason, Muslims who reject Jesus as the Son of God are depraved. Mohammed rejected Jesus as the Son of God and therefore he was depraved. Is that the kind of logic you want? What about all the people in Mecca who rejected Mohammed? That makes him depraved? How did Mohammed deal with the Meccans? He returned with a force of warriors and forced himself on the city.
He wrote: Secondly, the community of Judaic breaks in 2: half denies Jesus, another acknowledges Jesus. How could this be? I mean, if indeed the coming of Jesus is already written, foretold, forecast in Scriptures, why all the priests and all Judaic community refuse Jesus? Isn't that mean that in Scriptures, there is never a single line that foretells that someone by the name Jesus is coming? In this case, Christians stress that Israel erase the line foretelling the coming of Jesus. But Judaic community stress that the followers of Jesus make this up. The question is: who is right? The followers of Jesus, or Judaic people who deny Jesus? Let me answer this: both are mistaken. The problem lies in: the depravity of Israel. Once the Israel is depraved, then forever all products / materials brought, kept by them are all questioned and even dangerous. Further: Christians accuse that Judaism is false. Jews accuse that Christian is false. Which one is right? As you know, both Christian and Judaism are born in the same cradle, in the same quality of people. Answer is: both are false! Case closed!
My Response: You have a conspiracy theory about Jews and Christians that is simply off the wall. No Christian has ever said that the Jews erased a line of Scripture. There are many prophecies in the Old Testament about the coming Messiah. He is not named specifically, but he is named in terms of character, “his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.” Isaiah 9:6. Jesus claimed to be all of this. If you would read the New Testament you would see all of this.
You are wrong in your commentary. You do not separate out the Old Testament Scriptures from the Oral tradition that was built up by the Pharisees and others. Jesus himself declared the Old Testament Scriptures truthful. Do you want to call Jesus a liar? He condemned the Oral tradition but He said search the scriptures for they testify of me. Judaism was true as far as it went, but there were those Jews who did not acknowledge Him as Messiah. How could Jesus claim the Scripture testified to Him if they were corrupted? Remember the first Christians were Jewish believers who accepted Him as Messiah and Savior. Remember also that the apostles quoted the Old Testament many times in a similar fashion that Jesus did.
He wrote: Third, in his life, Jesus in a sermon on a hill to Israel, states this: Israel! Your forefathers murdered all (ancient) prophets. And you! If you are not those murderers, so you are the descendants of those murderers...What is that mean? Jesus himself acknowledges that Israel is depraved. The sermon of Jesus is bottom-lining some fact for the whole world that
My Response: What kind of reasoning is this? Because some prophets were killed all the rest are to be regarded as depraved? If we apply the same reasoning to Muslim history we can conclude the same. For example, when Muslims invaded India 300,000 Indian men were slaughtered because they did not know what to do with prisoners. Over 60 million Christians were slain in the conquest of Christian North Africa, 80 million Hindus were slain in the invasion of India, 10 million Buddhists were killed along the silk route, in Africa over 120 million have died due to Jihad, and this means about 270 million people were killed in the last 1400 years and is still going on. Now given your logic, Muslims are depraved, all Muslim materials are false, and we should be suspicious of all Muslims. Therefore Muslims give us no reason to be respected. Muslims are always depraved. Is this your logic? Go here for the stats.
He wrote: Fourth, if you insist that Israel is not depraved, or there is nothing happens in the way of heaven, then there ain't got to be Judaism and Christian side by side under the sky! If Judaic community / Israel are honest, then the coming of Jesus would be the ending days for Judaism. The fact differs. They keep the Judaism and all Judaic practices alive as if Jesus was telling lies. I want you to answer this: is it that Jesus who tells lies, or Jews who hide the truth? If you can't answer that (and of course -and I believe- you can't answer that), at least you know the problem and the situation, the background. There is one major bottom-line Jesus gives you: Jesus himself never trusts Israel / Judaic anymore! And if Jesus never trusts Judaic people, so why do you believe in them? Jesus is the best example for you, in this case.
My Response: I would suggest that you get better information on this issue by reading the book of Romans, chapter 9-11, “I say then, Did God cast off his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God did not cast off his people which he foreknew.” (Rom. 11:1-2) Your conclusion at the end of your paragraph raises the same kind of question as above. First, to say that Jesus never trusts Jews is an error. Jesus loves not only the Jews, but He also loves you. Why should one hold grudges against a people for what their fathers did? This is one of the problems of the Muslim community: there is no forgiveness, only revenge. Jesus taught forgiveness, even on the Cross when he was crucified he prayed, “Father, forgive them....” If Muslims would so this, there would be no blood revenge.
Can you prove that Jesus lied? What is the evidence? What about the fact that Mohammed indicated one could lie and deceive others for purposes of war, and killing?
Note the following: Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah: Allah's Apostle said, "Who is willing to kill Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab)." The Prophet said, "You may say it." ... (Sahih al-Bukhari 5.369)
He wrote: Fifth, not long time after Jesus' sermon that stresses the depravity of Israel, Jesus is captured, arrested, tortured, crucified and murdered on a cross as if Jesus was a crime. All what Jesus warns, happens to himself. It means, the sermon of Jesus affects nothing to
My Response: You have made sweeping statements that are incorrect. First, God foretold what would happen to the Messiah, Isaiah 53 as an example. Second, thousands of Jews believed the Gospel, the Good news about the resurrection and they carried the message of hope and forgiveness to other Jews scattered in various parts of the Roman Empire, and that message spilled over to the non-Jews, the Gentiles. God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself. The incorporation of the Gentiles was also foretold in the Old Testament. Third, your reasoning also can reflect on Mohammed. Was he a liar? Did he deceive people in claiming a revelation?
I would hope your comments about Jesus being crucified and about the resurrection are true for you in spite of the fact that the Qur’an denies it. What do you really agree with, the Qur’an or the New Testament?
He wrote: Sixth, most of all about the crucifixion, this is not just the leaders of Israel who decide (based on their depravity) the crucifixion, but all entire nation of Israel is so enthusiasm for Jesus crucifixion. None of them who feel sorry for Jesus crucified (except a little few; those who are in the inner circle of Jesus life: his mother, family, his followers). It strongly brings you and all bodies a clear clue and hint to understand how depraved entire Israel is!
My Reponse: How can you say that it was the entire nation? The whole nation was not in Jerusalem when he was crucified! You are condemning a whole people because of the actions of the leaders. Your wholesale condemnation of the Jewish people comes out of the influence of the Qur’an on your thinking. If you compare the number of Jews who have won Nobel prizes in the sciences with the number of Muslims who have won these prizes you will see the promise to Abraham coming true.... “I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and be thou a blessing; and I will bless them that bless thee, and him that curseth thee will I curse: and in thee shall all the families of the earth be blessed.” (Gen. 12:2-3)
You have been blessed by the Jewish people even though you don’t want to acknowledge it.
Your reasoning is misguided. Mohammed is responsible for the killing of a whole tribe of Jewish men, and selling the rest into slavery. On your reasoning one should say that all Muslims are depraved because of this. I would hope you would reject such sweeping generalizations, not only for Muslims but also for everyone else including Jews.
He wrote: Seventh, in the movie Ten Commandment, the screen shows us the depravity of Israel. After they are rescued by God from Egyptian bondage and from the Red Sea, they create and worship another idol just when Moses is away to meet God for Ten Commandments. What is that mean? Israel is so depraved! How could books of them be reliable to believe in?
My Response: First, don’t use movies for your understanding of Jewish or Christian history. Hollywood is interested in making money, not converts. Have you ever done anything contrary to Muslim beliefs? The Jews were recently liberated from slavery. They were on their way to learning about God and what it all means. Now, not all the people turned to idolatry. God’s judgement came on them but He did not give up on them because of his promise to Abraham. The books are reliable because they tell the truth, they don’t whitewash it. If you will read the Old Testament story you will discover that Hollywood did not stick to the script of the Bible.
He wrote: Eight, Jesus captured, tortured, and chained for crucifixion. In jail, there is another crime names Barabas. According to Israel tradition, if there are two crimes to be crucified, then both can't be crucified, only one can. So, the court will have the people to vote, which crime is to be crucified. The people vote for Jesus to be crucified, and vote Barabas to be released. Jesus? The teacher of morality? The one who sets free the woman-adulterer from stoning to death? The one who feeds the poor? The one who heals the blind and leprosy? The one who brings life back to the death? What's wrong with Israel? You got to know that only the depravity that can make Barabas set free and Jesus set to death! The depravity I say, not EXTOLMENT!
My response: You are wrong about two people can’t be crucified, only one can. There were two thieves crucified with Jesus, one on each side. Because some people screamed for his crucifixion that does not mean that everyone since that time who is Jewish should be condemned. Jesus died for your sins and mine, not just because of those actions. Moreover, you cannot blame generations following for the crucifixion. Actually, it was your sins and my sins involved in his death.
He wrote: Ninth, it must be clear for being logic: the Evangel, Torah, Psalms are corrupted by Israel. There will be no sufficient reason to believe that Bible (NT - OT) is all pure and authentic. Both Israel and their Bible (NT - OT) are not subjects to believe in as history shows their depravity. Just cling to the history / fact, not to the system of faith. Clinging to the faith is the second matter; the first is cling to the fact!! Or, can any of Christians (or Jews as well) determine which verse of Bible (NT - OT) is as pure as it is first revealed? Or, are they determining that all verses in Bible (NT - OT) are trustworthy? If so, what about the depravity of Israel? Isn't there any correlation between the trustworthiness of the Bible (NT - OT) and the Israel depravity? How come? Where do all Christians (and Jews as well) position the depravity of Israel in the presence of Bible (NT - OT)?
My response: “Lo! We inspire thee as We inspired Noah and the prophets after him, as We inspired Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the tribes, and Jesus and Job and Jonah and Aaron and Solomon, and as We imparted unto David the Psalms; And messengers We have mentioned unto thee before and messengers We have not mentioned unto thee; and Allah spake directly unto Moses;” (4:163-164, Pickthall) “Let the People of the Gospel judge by that which Allah hath revealed therein. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are evil-livers.” (5:47, Pickthall)
Please follow my comments closely. If the Qur’an could say this about the Scriptures when Mohammed lived, then we are talking about trustworthy Scriptures. The only way you can defeat this is to say Mohammed is a liar, which you will not do. We have copies of the New Testament that go back to the third century AD, and fragments that are even earlier. There are no attempts to erase any line from the Bible. I don’t need to repeat the issue of the depravity of Israel again.
On the other hand, how do we know the Qur’an is correct? There were a number of copies circulating following Mohammed’s death. There were people who knew some suras that others did not. There were people who were killed in battle who knew suras. Moreover, all except one copy of the Qur’an were burned. How do we know that it was the right one?
The issue of Abrogation of suras in the Qur’an is a serious problem. Muslim theologians assert that no fewer than 124 more peaceful verses were abrogated. Does this not pose serious questions about the reliability of the Qur’an or Mohammed, or both? Does it not raise questions about the nature of Allah who could not get it right the first time? Was Allah or Mohammed making it up as the situation demanded?
He wrote: Tenth, David had sex with someone's wife? And sent his men to kill the husband? Lot had sex with his daughters? Jacob wrestled with God? Jesus says: "before Abraham, I am"? There is no foretell in Bible (NT - OT) about the coming of Muhammad SAW? Of course there are lines in Bible (NT - OT) that foretell the coming of Muhammad SAW, but Israelites erase them! If you deny such lines ever existed in Bible (NT - OT) but Israel erased them, so what about Israel denial on the coming of Jesus?
My Response: I am surprised that you raised the question about sex. Did David get away with it? No, God sent the prophet Nathan to convict him of sin and God brought judgment on David. What about Mohammed’s sex life? I can say that David sinned. Can you say Mohammed sinned in sexual matters?
How can you say
Jews do not deny the existence of Jesus, some of them did not accept Him as Messiah and Son of God. But thousands did and they spread the good news all throughout the Empire.
He wrote: Eleventh, is there a magic saying: yes Israel is depraved and not a subject to believe in since the beginning of time. But, when Christian arisen, there will be an exception: Israel would be so honest only this time? Is that so?
My Response: Your comment does not make sense to me. If you wish to explain it further I would be happy to comment on it.
He wrote: Twelfth, as Jesus is 'perfectly' crucified on the cross suffering the death, something comes to his senses: "in this way, it is impossible that all my teachings would be preserved and protected. Their depravity crucifies and double-crosses Me, then the same thing will torture and twist My Words...." Isn't that so, my brother Christians?
My Response: How can you put your words in Jesus’ mind? Would you want anyone to put words in Mohammed’s mind like “I don’t really believe all this, but it gives me power, women, and booty.” What you hear from the cross is, “Father, forgive them.” Putting your words into the story is as bad as the words you would not like put into Mohammed story.
He wrote: Because this is impossible: the depraved Israel crucifies Jesus, (and murders all ancient prophets, and twist the ancient holy books)
My Response: Not all ancient prophets were murdered, and you have no evidence that Israel twisted the holy books. If you insist you declare Jesus to be a liar, and the Qur’an has a lie in it. Which way do you want to go?
He wrote: but the depraved Israel preserves His Words... Apparently, the depravity of Israel creates, and causes the chaos in re-writing the holy teachings. As Jesus is suffering death on the cross, then can Jesus put a hope too much that His Words would be everlasting in the hands of Israel since His name is not everlasting in the hands of Israel? And you, my Christian brother! Can you put a hope too much, that Jesus' Words would be everlasting in the hands of depraved Israel?
My Response: This has been dealt with above.
He wrote: Seems to me that I hear you say: "with or without hope, the words of 'JESUS GOD' (Jesus is god? How many gods do you have since Ten Commandment states for you that -let there be no God but your God. Where do you position the Ten Commandment in 'Jesus god'?) are indeed everlasting as the Bible states that in clear words". No, my brother! Never cling anymore to what your faith says. Just cling to what happened factually!!!!!! You are not a child anymore. You are grownup now! Put your feet back on the ground. Leave the cradle. Leave the bed-stories. Dear my Christian brother, you are not there when Jesus is crucified to know and to see what is really going on.
My Response: Christians have always affirmed belief in one God who has revealed Himself as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The essence or the nature of God is one, the persons three. If you read the New Testament you will be aware of God’s revelation of Himself. This is from the beginning of the life of Jesus.
Your comment about “cling to what happened factually!!!!” is worth looking at. The Qur’an claims things that never happened. Will you be realistic and deal with facts? The Qur’an claims that Jesus spoke from the cradle and as a child made a clay pigeon, breathed into it, and it became alive. The Gospel of John, written long before this Gnostic story circulated and was heard by Mohammed, declares that Jesus’ first miracle was done at a wedding in Cana of Galilee. You have a choice of a historical fact of Cana or a fable that is false. One is real and one is a bedtime story in the Qur’an. You can’t make a fable into a fact.
Similarly, you were not in Mecca or Medina when Mohammed was there to see if he was a genuine prophet. How can you trust the words of a man who robbed, killed, gave permission to lie and deceive and other sins?
He wrote: Dear my brother. You always convince yourself that the words of God in Bible (NT - OT) are everlasting as each verse therein states that. And you are so inspired and powered with that conviction. As I have told you before, one thing you should know, if indeed each line in Bible (NT - OT) is everlasting since the beginning, so why the Judaic agents deny Jesus?
My Response: This may be hard for you to understand since Muslims do not allow freedom. The Pharisees and Sadducees rejected Jesus because of their position in power. When you read the story the Gospels declare that these people were afraid that Rome would come and take away their positions. They were free to rebel against God as they were free to rebel in the Old Testament.
What kind of freedom is in Islam? Can you reject the imam’s words? Can you have different views on the Qur’an? Can you allow non-Muslims to exist in your society?
Do you want Sharia law to be introduced against non-Muslims? Muslims have not learned that forced conversion, forced worship, forced conforming is not real. God is not pleased with this and cannot be fooled. Only the Devil would be pleased with forced worship.
He wrote: And why Jesus sees so many corruptions in the Scriptures? Why Jesus always gets involved in quarrels with the rabbis on sensitive issues? Aren't they familiar with the ideas Jesus brings? Why everything Jesus teaches is so strange to all rabbis, since Jesus teaches nothing but what lives in Bible (NT - OT), things they possess in their hands? Dear my Christian brother. Simply, there is nothing in your Bible (NT - OT), which you can hold on to.
My Response: I have already answered this above. The Bible is trustworthy. Even if I am disobedient to some command in the Bible, that does not make it untrue. It is true although I may be disobedient.
He wrote: Thirteenth. The Proves of twisting: 1. In his life, Jesus worships God and only God, which means, Jesus is not a god.
My Response: Your choice of words is unfortunate. Read the real story in Luke, 3:21-22 , “While everyone else was being baptized, Jesus himself was baptized. Then as he prayed, the sky opened up, and the Holy Spirit came down upon him in the form of a dove. A voice from heaven said, "You are my own dear Son, and I am pleased with you."
In this passage Jesus is talking with His father which is what praying is about. You will also note that the Christian idea of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are in these verses. The Trinity is not something that Christians invented, the facts about it are in the early documents.
He wrote: 2. In Christianity, Jesus is indeed god. In his life, Jesus states that he won't make any changes in religion, won't come for new religion.
My Response: Matthew 5:17 “Don't suppose that I came to do away with the Law and the Prophets. I did not come to do away with them, but to give them their full meaning.” To give them their full meaning does not do away with them. This is the fulfillment, not the destruction of the Law. Matthew 28:18-20 indicates that Jesus said to his followers,
“Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.” (Matthew 28:19-20)
He wrote: 3. In Christianity, Jesus is known as the founder of new religion. In his life, Jesus teaches that all men are the sons of God.
My Response: What is the basis of this statement? Jesus said to the Pharisees,“Your father is the devil, and you do exactly what he wants. He has always been a murderer and a liar. There is nothing truthful about him. He speaks on his own, and everything he says is a lie. Not only is he a liar himself, but he is also the father of all lies.” John 8:44
All people are a creation of God, but only those who give themselves to Jesus are the sons and daughters of God. John 1:12-13 says,
“But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.”
To be a child of God means you have to receive Jesus as Lord.
He wrote: 4. In Christianity, Jesus is the only son of God. Jesus in his life adopts Ten Commandments that says: let there be no God but your God, the only God, God of heaven and earth. In Christian life, beside God, Jesus is indeed god supported by and on any stupid theory / rhetoric. Christians often say: "O my dear Jesus GOD..." -or- "O Jesus my GOD... " Or in complete, "God Father (it is God), God Jesus, and God Holy Spirit.... AMEN".
My Response: If Jesus is the Son of God, or God embodied, what is wrong with addressing prayer to Him? He is God. I would suggest that you read the Gospel of John and see the real story,
“Don't you believe that I am one with the Father and that the Father is one with me? What I say isn't said on my own. The Father who lives in me does these things. Have faith in me when I say that the Father is one with me and that I am one with the Father. Or else have faith in me simply because of the things I do.” (John 14:10-11)
He wrote: 5. In his life, Jesus adopts Ten Commandments that says: never make any idol like My Creation, in sky, in ocean and beneath the ground. In Christian life, even churches adopt, make, and collect so many statues like His Creations.
My Response: The issue in the Ten Commandments is that you shall not worship them. Making pictures of anything of beauty is not idolatry. An idol is something worshiped, a picture is not worshiped but frames a lovely memory of a person, landscape, or event.
He wrote: 6. In his life, Jesus never teaches some secularism. In your Christian community life now, secularism is indeed a strong value that lives among churches and monasteries.
My Response: What do you mean by secularism? I know what it is, but do you? What is your point?
He wrote: 7. In his life, Jesus never launches war. In Christian life, war is the only 'instrument' to rule the whole world and faith; we all Muslims in the East must suffer bloody war year after year which launched by your people. While your people are launching war against our people, your priests Christianised our helpless children, brothers and sisters.
My Response: You should read the history of Islam. I know you probably have a mentality that Muslims never start anything wrong, but Mohammed and Islam started war on the pagans of Arabia. After that Muslims invaded the west, captured Jerusalem, Egypt, North Africa, Spain and France. You need to read the shame that Muslims brought to the West. The Crusades were only attempts to regain the Holy Land because it was once the cradle of the beginning of Christianity. I hope you don’t have the mental mind set that you can’t accept the fact of Muslim terrorism. The air craft crashes into
He wrote: 8. In his life, Jesus teaches that all women shall stay at home (women seclusion). In your Christian life, churches and your social organizations send women out to have outdoor activities.
My Response: What evidence do you give for this? Consider the gospels, Matthew 15:38, “There were four thousand men who ate, not counting the women and children.” Women have lots of freedom in Christian history, here they were out with Jesus along with their children. There is no command that women be secluded. It is an injustice to women to have their secluded at home and having to wear a black tent covering their whole body in public. This is a shame, and you ought to preach against it. You should persuade your imam to preach about the evils done to women in Islam.
He wrote: 9. In his life, Jesus teaches and adopts circumcision. In Christian life, circumcision denied. Thanks to Paul.
My Response: You should re-read the story of circumcision in the letters of Paul. Jesus really did not talk about circumcision except to make a point that it came before Moses. The issue was whether one had to be circumcised to enter the Kingdom of God, and the answer was no. Faith in Jesus was required instead.
He wrote: 10. In his life, Jesus buries the death with shroud. Even they shrouded Jesus' body to bury him. In Christian life, the death is not shrouded. They dress them with decent cloth instead.
My Response: Your point is not clear. What is the issue?
He wrote: 11. Jesus stones the adulterers. In Christian life, adulterers (prostitutes) are free, stoning the adulterers rejected.
My Response: Where did Jesus stone adulterers? Where in the New Testament is stoning adultery commanded? You are imposing Muslim values on the life of Jesus.
He wrote: 12. Jesus only teaches Israel. In Christian life, churches teach Christianity to all nations.
My Response: The Messiah came to
He wrote: 13. Jesus and his disciples don't sing. Now, all Christians sing.
My Response: How do you know they did not sing? “But the chief priests and the teachers of the Law of Moses were angry when they saw his miracles and heard the children shouting praises to the Son of David. The men said to Jesus, "Don't you hear what those children are saying?" "Yes, I do!" Jesus answered. "Don't you know that the Scriptures say, 'Children and infants will sing praises'?" (Matt. 21:15-16) What do you think the Psalms of the Old Testament were? Many of them were praises to Yahweh. Mohammed was against music and fun.
He wrote: Why can't Christian and its people live with harmony with Jesus life? Thus, if all Christians now are inspired to live in harmony with Jesus life then based on what sources do they have? Bible (NT - OT)? Church constitutions?
My Response: There is only one source for the Christian faith and that is the Bible, predominantly the New Testament. Jesus is our Lord and Savior.
He wrote: Fourteenth. Even until today, Jews don't believe in all materials of Christians. And Christians don't believe in all materials of Judaism. The question is, who is wrong? Who is right? The only answer is, b-o-t-h are wrong! How could you be so blind while 'the proof is in the pudding'? Both Jews don't believe in Christian materials and Christians don't believe in Judaism materials only show you that you, Christians and Jews are in suspicion one to each other. Christians say that there is something wrong in Judaism, and so do Jews. It only derives us to say, that Israel is so depraved, and the blood of Israel corrupted the revelation! That's the only conclusion you can take. This is not a possibility. But this is what happens 'in an egg'; you don't and you can't see it, but it is.
My Response: Your logic is wrong. If Judaism is wrong, why must Christianity be wrong also?
One could say Judaism, Islam and Christianity don’t agree and they are all wrong. I cannot say that they are all wrong, but Christianity completes Judaism, and there is no place for Islam as a better religion. Your antisemitism comes through in these comments again.
Moreover, Christians do not reject the Old Testament as being useless. Jesus quoted the Old Testament and the stories of the Old Testament are the stories of the journey of faith and sometimes lack of faith. These things were written for our encouragement. Many of the New Testament letters as well as the Gospels quote the Old Testament.
He wrote: Fifteen. Jesus says to
What is that mean? Why must Jesus say that to his people? Isn't that a sign of depravity? Do all Muhammad's followers deny Him in that early?
My Response: Please read the real story: “Then saith Jesus unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad. But after I am risen again, I will go before you into
Please remember that this was a denial for short time. Peter was transformed by the appearance of Jesus in his resurrection and became a leader in the early church at Jerusalem later giving his life for his faith.
He wrote: The conclusion on Christian Sahada Statement I is D.O.I that stands for Depravity Of Israel. Dear my Scriptural Brother. I would like to tell you, that this is not about what your faith is trying to convince and inspire you. But this is all about what Israel is. This is all about Israel, their depravity. Talking about religion and its promises, of course would always be an interesting session.
My Response: I am sorry that you are so adamant that Israel is the problem. Mohammed’s hatred of the Jews has been taught universally in Islam. Blaming all Jews for what one group of people did is like blaming all Muslims for 9-11. Is this reasonable? Logical? Absolutely not. Mohammed’s hatred of the Jews was due to their dis-trust of him. They knew he was not a legitimate prophet and he could not stand their rejection. Their rejection undermined his authority in Medina.
He wrote: Not just Christian that is interesting, but also Hinduism, Buddhism and Islam are interesting. But what is about the background of each religion? Like a person. What he promises you all sounds like heaven comes to you. But what is he?
My Response: I would suggest that you read these articles (1,2) and see the answers.
He wrote: Simply, all the points above show us that Israelites are depraved.
My Response: Fortunately you have not proven your point!!! You have shown your prejudices, bias, and faulty logic.
He wrote: Unfortunately, this nation is the one who conveys the Revelations. Then, is it possible that the Revelations are preserved?
No matter how strong your conviction is, still there is nothing you can do about the depravity of Israel. And thus, the depravity must have affected the purity of Bible. You can make a proof that Bible is preserved. But the question are,
1. Which Bible?
2. Where do you position the depravity of Israel in this matter?
Is it possible for a nation who are accustomed to murder all the prophets, to preserve their Books?
My Response: First, you don’t give any credit to God for the preservation of the Scriptures. Second, you haven’t proven that the Jews corrupted the Bible. Your claim would make Jesus to be a liar, or deceived. Third, you have not mentioned the fact that Satan got his message into the Qur’an: “Have ye thought upon Al-Lat and Al-'Uzza And Manat, the third, the other are yours the males and His the females? (Sura 53)” Is this purity?
Fourth, you might raise the question in your self, if Satan inspired part of the Qur’an, what keeps one from asking if Satan inspired more of it, like hating the Jews, secluding women, the concept of Jihad and other things?
I am not sure why you wrote to me. However, I have taken time to answer many of these issues. Let me urge you to pray to God that He will show you who is the Savior.
God loves you and wants to deliver you from the slavery of false teaching. God came in the person of Jesus to bring forgiveness, peace, and the promise of the Holy Spirit to live in your life. On top of it, Jesus promises you the gift of everlasting life in His presence. I hope you will come to accept His gift. I send this to you with a prayer that God will open your eyes to Him.
Blessings.... Dallas M. Roark, Ph.D.
Source : http://answering-islam.org/authors/roark/letter1.html
IHS
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