Dismantling the Muhammadan perception of John 1:1 Pt. 2

I continue my rebuttal to the Muslim neophyte’s tirade against God’s inspired Word https://answeringislamblog.wordpress.com/2018/12/28/dismantling-the-muhammadan-perception-of-john-11-pt-1/.

Unitarian Incoherent Babble: Wanting to have your cake and eat it too!

The greenhorn appeals to the incoherent and inconsistent polemics of unitarian heretics to undermine the explicit testimony of John’s prologue to the essential Deity and eternal Personhood of the Logos: 

“It is a common but patent misreading of the opening of John’s Gospel to read it as if it said: “In the beginning was the Son, and the Son was with God, and the Son was God” (John 1:1).” [1]

Over 50 translations of the Bible as noted by Buzzard do not presume that John 1:1 speaks of a second person in a Triune Godhead. [2] So he is clearly not a lone wolf in his view that the ‘logos’ in John 1:1 is the mind or the plan of God rather than a being or an entity existing pre-eternally with the Father as Jesus, the Son.

“For 50 translations which did not assume that logos was a second Person, see Focus on the Kingdom of July, 2004, at restorationfellowship.org. These translations give us the pronoun “it”, not “he” for word.” (Bold emphasis mine)

And:

The ordained Anglican priest and Cambridge theologian, Prof. Cupitt writes:

“John’s words ought to be retranslated: “The Word was with God the Father and the Word was the Father’s own Word,” to stress that the Word IS NOT AN INDEPENDENT DIVINE BEING, but is the only God’s own self-expression. If all this is correct, then even John’s language about Jesus still falls within the scope of the King-ambassador model.” [3] (Bold and capital emphasis mine)

Again:

And finally, let us closely consider the latest translation of John 1:1 by the able scholar of the Greek language and New Testament theologian, Sir Anthony F. Buzzard:

“In the beginning there was God’s grand design, and that declaration was with God, related to Him as His project, and IT was fully expressive of God Himself.” [12] (Bold and capital emphasis mine)

Finally:

Andrew Cooper Fix points out that the archaic Reijnier Rooleeuw (published in 1694) translation of John 1:1 reflects a Socinian Christological view of Jesus that is antithetical to the Trinitarian view of the verse:

“And the word was a god.” [4]

The above citations illustrate what happens whenever heretics decide to pervert the Word of God. The Lord shames them by exposing them as incoherent babblers and liars:

“Every word of God is pure; He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him. Do not add to His words, lest He reprove you, and you be found a liar.” Proverbs 30:5-6

Notice the gross contradiction in what is being asserted by these perverters of God’s truth. If the Logos is not an independent divine being, but merely the plan or mind of God, since it is nothing more than God’s self-expression, then it makes absolutely no sense to say that the Logos is A god!

With that said, do these heretics really want us to believe that God’s own mind or plan is actually A god? If so then how many gods are there, seeing that God’s plans are so numerous? Should we, therefore, assume that God has eternally existed with a host of lesser divine beings, or that God’s own mind is an independent divine being? Do the readers see just how ridiculous this argument is?

On the other hand, if these so-called Christian unitarians are correct that the Greek of John 1:1c, i.e. kai Theos en ho Logos, should be rendered as “and the Word was A god,” then this completely refutes their argument that the Logos is not a living Being. The only way that the Logos can be A god is if he is an actual conscious divine Person that exists independently from God.

Such incoherent nonsense only confirms that the traditional orthodox interpretation of John 1:1 is the correct one:

1 The preexistence of the Word is strongly brought out by the phrase… (en arche een ho logos, “in the beginning was the word”)… (arche) according to H. Bietenhard “is an important term in Gk philosophy,” which means, among other things, “starting point, original beginning” (DNTT, 1:164). By itself, this may not seem too significant, for few would debate that we are dealing with the “original beginning.” It is the presence of the verb… (een, “was”) that brings out the importance of this phrase. Literally, it could and should be rendered “When the beginning began, the Word was already there.” This is the sense of en, which is in the imperfect tense AND IMPLIES CONTINUOUS EXISTENCE IN THE PAST. So before the beginning began, the Word was already in existence. This is tantamount to saying that the Word predates time or Creation.

The three statements of v. 1 bring out three different aspects of the nature of the Word. The first speaks of his preexistence (see above). The second statement, “The Word was with God,” is an assertion of the Word’s distinctiveness. The preposition… (pros) indicates both equality and distinction of identity. Robertson says, “The literal idea comes out well, ‘face to face with God’” (RHG, p. 623). Thus this IMPLIES PERSONALITY and coexistence with God. Robertson says it bespeaks of “the FELLOWSHIP between the Word and God.”

The third statement, “The Word was God,” is especially significant. This is a clear statement of deity inasmuch as the noun… (theos, “God”) is anarthrous; that is, it lacks the article. Much confusion has spawned over this point of Gr. Grammar. Robertson et al. have aptly demonstrated that the lack of the article in the predicate is intentional so that the subject can be distinguished. In other words, in the phrase… (theos een ho logos, “God was the Word”), were it not for the article… (ho) before the word … (logos), the subject of the phrase would be indeterminate. But the presence of the article shows that it is the “Word” that is the subject. The fact that theos is a predicate shows that IT IS DESCRIBING THE NATURE OF THE WORD; HE IS OF THE SAME NATURE AND ESSENCE AS THE NOUN IN THE PREDICATE; that is, the Word is divine (RHG, p. 767).

E. C. Colwell says that “a predicate nominative which precedes the verb cannot be translated as an indefinite or ‘qualitative’ noun solely because of the absence of the article; if the context suggests that the predicate is definite, it should be translated as a definite noun in spite of the absence of the article. In the case of a predicate noun which follows the verb the reverse is true; the absence of the article in this position is a much more reliable indication that the noun is indefinite” (“A Definite Rule for the Use of the Article in the Greek New Testament,” JBL, 52 [1933]: 20-21).

To say that the absence of the article bespeaks of the nonabsolute deity of the Word IS SHEER FOLLY. There are many places in this Gospel where the anarthrous theos appears (e.g., 1:6, 12, 13, 18), and not once is the implication that this is referring to just “a god.”

3 It is significant that the verb used three times in this v. is different from that used in the previous two vv. In vv. 1-2 the verb is the imperfect of … (eimi, “to be”), … (een, “was”), which is a verb describing a state of being. In v. 3, however, the verb … (ginomai, “to become”) is used, which has the force of “coming into being.” This, then, is another assertion of the deity of the Word. Through him all things “came into being,”… (egeneto), BUT HE ALWAYS WAS (een). This latter truth is emphasized by the “I am’s” of Christ mentioned throughout this Gospel. (Tenney, The Expositor’s Bible Commentary with the New International Version (John and Acts), Volume 9, pp. 29-30; bold and capital emphasis ours)

John’s Gospel provides further confirmation that the divine Logos is an eternal Person who became a flesh and blood human being named Jesus of Nazareth. Pay close attention to the prologue:

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God (pros ton Theon), and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God (pros ton Theon). All things were created through Him, and without Him nothing was created that was created. In Him was life, and the life was the light of mankind. The light shines in darkness, but the darkness has not overcome it. There was a man sent from God whose name was John. This man came as a witness in order to testify concerning the Light, that all men through Him might believe. He was not this Light, but was sent in order to testify concerning the Light. The true Light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world (eis ton kosmon). He was in the world (en to kosmo), and the world was created through Him, yet the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and His own people did not receive Him. Yet to all who received Him, He gave the power to become sons of God, to those who believed in His name, who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. The Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, the glory as the only Son (hos monogenous) of the Father, full of grace and truth. John bore witness of Him and cried out, ‘This was He of whom I said, “He who comes after me is preferred before me, FOR HE WAS BEFORE ME.”’” John 1:1-15

Everything that the Prologue says about the Logos is ascribed to the Lord Jesus elsewhere in the Gospel:

“Now this is the testimony of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, ‘Who are you?’ He confessed, and did not deny, but confessed, ‘I am not the Christ.’… John answered them, ‘I baptize with water, but One stands among you, whom you do not know. This is He who comes after me, who is preferred before me, the strap of whose sandal I am not worthy to untie.’ These things took place in Bethany beyond the Jordan, where John was baptizing. The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, ‘Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world. This is He of whom I said, “After me comes a Man who is preferred before me, FOR HE WAS BEFORE ME.” I did not know Him, but for this reason I came baptizing with water: so that He might be revealed to Israel.’ Then John bore witness, saying, ‘I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it remained on Him. I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me, “The One on whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.” I have seen and have borne witness that He is the Son of God.’ Again, the next day John was standing with two of his disciples. Looking upon Jesus as He walked, he said, ‘Look, the Lamb of God!’” John 1:19-21, 26-36

“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten (ton monogene) Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send His Son into the world (eis ton kosmon) to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. He who believes in Him is not condemned. But he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten (tou monogenous) Son of God. This is the verdict, that light has come into the world (eis ton kosmon), and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who does the truth comes to the light, that it may be revealed that his deeds have been done in God.’ After these things Jesus and His disciples came into the land of Judea. He remained with them there and baptized. John also was baptizing in Aenon toward Salim, because much water was there. And people came and were baptized. For John had not yet been put in prison. Then a dispute arose between some of John’s disciples and the Jews about ceremonial cleansing. They came to John and said to him, ‘Rabbi, He who was with you beyond the Jordan, to whom you bore witness, look, He is baptizing, and everyone is going to Him.’ John answered, ‘A man can receive nothing unless it has been given to him from heaven. You yourselves bear witness of me, that I said, “I am not the Christ,” but “I HAVE BEEN SENT BEFORE HIM.” He who has the bride is the bridegroom. But the friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him, rejoices greatly at the bridegroom’s voice. Therefore this joy of mine is fulfilled. He must increase, but I must decrease.’” John 3:16-30

“For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom He will… Truly, truly I say to you, the hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has given to the Son to have LIFE IN HIMSELF,” John 5:21, 25-26

“Again, Jesus spoke to them, saying, ‘I am the light of the world. Whoever follows Me shall not walk in the darkness, but shall have the light of life.” John 8:12

“I must do the works of Him who sent Me while it is day. Night is coming when no one can work. While I am in the world (en to kosmo), I am the light of the world.” John 9:4-5

“Then Jesus said to them, ‘Yet a little while the light is with you. Walk while you have the light, lest darkness overtake you. He who walks in darkness does not know where he is going. While you have light, believe in the light that you may become sons of light.’ Jesus said these things, and departed and hid Himself from them… ‘I have come as A LIGHT INTO THE WORLD (eis ton kosmon), that whoever believes in Me should not remain in darkness.’” John 12:35-36, 46

“… Having loved His own who were in the world, He loved them to the end.” John 13:1b

“Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book. But these are written that you might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life IN HIS NAME.” John 20:30-31

In light of the above passages note that,

Like the Word (1:4), Jesus has life within himself.

Like the Word (1:4-5, 8-10), Jesus is the Light sent into the world to shine in the darkness in order to enlighten every one who would come to him.

Like the Word (1:6-8), Jesus is the One that John the Baptist was sent to bear witness to, and Who existed before him.

Like the Word (1:11), Jesus came to his very own.

Like the Word (1:12-14), Jesus is the only-begotten Son of God the Father sent into the world so that everyone believing in his name should have everlasting life.

There’s more. Just as the Word was with God (pros ton Theon) in the beginning who then came into the world, Christ also went to be with God the Father after leaving the world that he came into:

“Now before the Passover Feast, Jesus knew that His hour had come to depart from this world to the Father (pros ton Patera)… Jesus, knowing that the Father had given all things into His hands and that He came from God and was going to God (pros ton Theon),” John 13:1, 3

“Truly, truly I say to you, he who believes in Me will do the works that I do also. And he will do greater works than these, because I am going to My Father (pros ton patera).” John 14:12

This next one is most interesting:

“‘I have told you these things in proverbs. But the time is coming when I will no longer speak to you in proverbs, for I will speak to you PLAINLY about the Father. On that day you will ask in My name. I am not saying to you that I shall ask the Father on your behalf. For the Father Himself loves you, because you have loved Me, and have believed that I came from God. I came from the Father and have come INTO THE WORLD (eis ton kosmon). As I said, I am leaving the world and am going TO THE FATHER (pros ton Patera).’ His disciples said to Him, ‘Yes! Now You are speaking plainly and with no figure of speech. Now we know that You know everything and do not need anyone to question You. By this we believe that You came from God.’ Jesus answered them, ‘Do you now believe?’” John 16:25-31

Instead of speaking in metaphors, parables, similes, hyperbole etc., Christ communicates in plain language and informs his followers that, just as he came from the Father to enter into the world, he was going to leave this world in order to be with the Father. And since the Lord is now speaking plainly, and not in figurative language, the disciples finally come to the realization that he indeed is omniscient and truly did come from God himself!

Now what makes the above cases rather important is that they all use the same preposition employed in 1:1-2, namely pros (“with/to”), to describe the Son personally going to the Father in order to continue their intimate, face-to-face relationship.

This places these unitarian heretics and the Muhammadan in a dilemma. Jesus was clearly a living, conscious Person when he left this world, and is now dwelling with the Father in heaven as an actual distinct Person.

Since none of these so-called Christians would disagree with this fact, then on what exegetical, contextual, and/or grammatical basis do they deny that Jesus personally, consciously existed with the Father as the Word before entering into the world seeing that John employs the very same preposition and language to describe Jesus leaving this world to go to God in order to continue the intimate, personal, face-to-face communion he enjoyed with the Father when he was on earth?

In other words, if the language of leaving this world and the use of pros in the above texts can only mean that Jesus entered heaven as an actual, conscious Person, and not merely as an idea or plan, then on what basis do these heretics have for depersonalizing the Word when John’s prologue employs the same language to describe the Word’s being with God before creation and his subsequent descent into the world?

There’s even more evidence that Christ personally, consciously preexisted in heaven before coming into the world:

“Jesus answered him, ‘Are you the teacher of Israel, but you do not know these things? Truly, truly I say to you, We speak of what WE KNOW and bear witness of what WE HAVE SEEN, but you do not receive Our testimony. If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? No one has ascended to heaven EXCEPT HE WHO DESCENDED FROM HEAVEN, even the Son of Man who is in heaven.’… ‘He who comes from above is above all. He who is of the earth is earthly and speaks of the earth. He who comes FROM HEAVEN is above all.’” John 3:10-13, 31

Jesus plainly teaches that he speaks of heavenly realities from firsthand experience because he is the only One that has come down from heaven to make known these heavenly mysteries. This is why the Baptist went on to affirm that Christ, unlike himself, is from heaven above, which is why the Lord is above all.

And:

“Therefore they said to Him, ‘What sign do You show then, that we may see and believe You? What work will You perform? Our fathers ate manna in the desert. As it is written, “He gave them bread from heaven to eat.”’ Then Jesus said, ‘Truly, truly I say to you, Moses did not give you the bread from heaven, but My Father gives you the true bread FROM HEAVEN. For the bread of God is HE WHO COMES DOWN FROM HEAVEN and gives life to the world.’ Then they said to Him, ‘Lord, give us this bread always.’ Jesus said to them, ‘I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to Me shall never hunger, and whoever believes in Me shall never thirst… For I came down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.’ … The Jews then murmured about Him, because He said, ‘I am the bread which came down from heaven.’ They said, ‘Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How is it then that He says, “I have come down from heaven”?’… Then what if you see the Son of Man ASCEND to where He was before?” John 6:30-35, 38, 41-42 62

Once again, just as the bread that God gave Israel literally came down from heaven above,

“Yet He had commanded the skies above and opened the doors of heaven, and He rained down manna upon them to eat and gave them the grain of heaven. Man ate the food of mighty angels; He sent them bread in abundance. He caused an east wind to blow in the heavens, and by His power He brought out a south wind. He rained meat on them as dust, and winged birds as the sand of the sea; and He let them fall in the midst of their camp all around their habitations. So they ate and were satisfied, for He gave them their own desire;” Psalm 78:23-29 – cf. Exodus 16

So, also, the Lord Jesus personally, consciously came down from heaven itself. And just as none of these heretics would deny that Jesus personally ascended into heaven, then they cannot deny that he must have come down from there as an actual conscious Person. The dilemma for these so-called Christians is that they cannot affirm the one without also affirming the other, since they can’t have their cake and eat it too, which is what they desperately want.

Therefore, if Jesus’ ascent into heaven was an actual, personal entrance, then his coming into the world must also have been a personal, conscious act. If the Lord didn’t ascend into heaven as a mere plan or idea, then the descent of the Logos into the world couldn’t have been nothing more than God’s plan being materialized in the creation of Christ in the womb of his blessed mother.

With the foregoing in perspective, how much clearer could John have been in affirming the eternal prehuman existence of Christ? What else could this inspired author have written to convince these heretics that the Logos is an eternal divine Person who existed with the Father before the entire creation came into being?

I’m still not finished rebutting this Muslim neophyte. More to come in the next section https://answeringislamblog.wordpress.com/2019/01/02/dismantling-the-muhammadan-perception-of-john-11-pt-3/.

Source: https://answeringislamblog.wordpress.com/2018/12/29/dismantling-the-muhammadan-perception-of-john-11-pt-2/

IHS

Dismantling the Muhammadan perception of John 1:1 Pt. 1

In this rebuttal I am going to address the desperate attempt made by Muhammadan-turned apostate-turned Muhammadan again-turned apostate again-turned Muhammad one more time Ibn Anwar to refute John 1:1’s explicit affirmation of Jesus’ prehuman existence as the uncreated Logos or Word http://unveiling-christianity.net/2016/02/23/dismantling-trinitarian-perception-john-11/.

I am going to break down the verse into three lines in order to assist the readers in understanding what the objection is:

a. In the beginning was the Word.

b. And the Word was with God (ton theon).

c. And the Word was God (theos).

The readers can see that in line c, the Greek word for God (theos) doesn’t have the Greek definite article for “the” (ho). This has led many anti-Trinitarians to assume that John was identifying Jesus as A god, e.g., as an inferior divinity to the Father, which is precisely what this Muslim greenhorn attempts to prove.

The Sahidic Coptic Version to the Rescue!

Ibn Anwar appeals to the Sahidic Coptic translation of John 1:1, which places an indefinite article before the Coptic word God in respect to the Word, in order to prove that John was identifying the prehuman Christ as A god, i.e., as a secondary deity to the Father:

Firstly, we point out that it is a documented fact, that the Sahidic Coptic MSS renders John 1:1c as “the word was a god” with “a god” in the “indefinite form.” If the Sahidic community had wanted to convey the Supreme Deity in the definite form, they most certainly had the grammatical tools to do so, but they chose to specifically write John 1:1c as “the word was a god” despite being Trinitarians themselves. This indicates that they saw the word as distinct from the father and that it did not share the same quality of Supreme Deity. If the Sahidic Coptic Christians had believed that the Word shared in equal divinity with the Father, they would certainly have designated the word with the phrase “the god” (with the definite article) and not as “a god.” The original Sahidic Coptic script is as follows:

ϨΝ ΤЄϨΟΥЄΙΤЄ ΝЄϤϢΟΟΠ ΝϬΙΠϢΑϪЄ, ΑΥѠ ΠϢΑϪЄ ΝЄϤϢΟΟΠ ΝΝΑϨΡΜ ΠΝΟΥΤЄ. ΑΥѠ ΝЄΥΝΟΥΤЄ ΠЄ ΠϢΑϪЄ

The key section that is understood as “and the word was a god” in the Sahidic Coptic variant above is “ΑΥѠ ΝЄΥΝΟΥΤЄ ΠЄ ΠϢΑϪЄ.” [5]

[5] See Jenott, Lance. “The Coptic Gospel of John.” N.p., 2003. Web. 23 Feb. 2016.

* The author Patrick Navas gives an excellent review of the Sahidic variant of John 1:1c:

Therefore, it is all the more strange that insights of the Sahidic Coptic text of John 1:1 are largely ignored by popular Bible translators. Might that be because the Sahidic Coptic Gospel of John translates John 1:1c in a way that is unpopular to many? The Sahidic text renders John 1:1c as auw neunoute pe pshaje, clearly meaning literally “and a god was the Word.” Unlike Koine Greek, Sahidic Coptic has both the definite article, p, and the indefinite article, ou, which may contract to u following the joined verbal prefix ne (i.e., ne ou noute becomes neunoute.) The Coptic text of John 1:1b identifies the first mention of noute as pnoute, “the god”, i.e., God. This corresponds to the Koine Greek text, wherein theos, “god,” has the definite article ho at John 1:1b, i.e., “the Word was with [the] God.”

The Koine Greek text indicates indefiniteness of the word theos in its second mention (John 1:1c) of “god,” by omitting the definite article before it, because Koine Greek had no indefinite article. But Coptic does have an indefinite article. and [sic] the text employs the indefinite article at John 1:1c. This makes it clear that in reading the original Greek text, the ancient Coptic translators understood it to say specifically that “the Word was a god.” The early Coptic Christians had a good understanding of both Greek and their own language, and their translation of John’s Koine Greek here is very precise and accurate. Because they actually employed the indefinite article before the Sahidic word “god,” noute, the Sahidic Coptic translation of John 1:1c is more precise than the translation in the Latin Vulgate, since Latin has neither a definite nor an indefinite article. The 6th century Coptic Bohairic version also employs the indefinite article before the Coptic word for “god,”: ne ounouti in the full form ou, because the verbal particle ne is not joined to it, reading: ne ounouti pe picaji, “a god was the Word.”” (Navas, P. (2007). Divine Truth or Human Tradition?: A Reconsideration of the Roman Catholic-Protestant Doctrine of the Trinity in Light of the Hebrew and Christian Scriptures. Indiana: Author House. p. 309)

The Sahidic Coptic version was most likely produced in the third century, and therefore serves as an early witness as to how certain Christians understood John 1:1c. However, this doesn’t mean that the scribe(s) who was/were responsible for this translation thought that Christ was an inferior divinity to God the Father, since the Muslim neophyte and his sources conveniently forgot to inform the readers that this same version renders John 1:18 as pnoute pShre nouwt’. This literally reads, “THE God the Son only,” e.g., both nouns “God” and “Son” are preceded by the definite article, and therefore describe the Lord Jesus as the Son who exists as THE God, and not some lesser divinity to the one true God!

That’s not at all. The Sahidic version translates Jesus’ use of ego eimi (“I Am”) in John 8:58 as empate abraHam Swpe anok TSOOP. Sahidic Coptic scholar George Horner renders this as, “Before Abraham became, I, I AM BEING.”

Compare this with the Sahidic version of Exodus 3:14:

anok pe peTSOOP’… Je peTSOOP’ pe ntaFtnno oyt’ Sarwtn.

“I am He who is…This is He who is who has sent me to you.”

Note that the term TSOOP appears in both verses.

We, thus, have a clear parallel between the words of Jesus and Jehovah, indicating that the scribe(s) that produced this early version understood Christ to be identifying himself as the very God that appeared to Moses in the burning bush!

The Sahidic Coptic isn’t the only early witness to connect Jesus’ emphatic declaration to his eternal prehuman existence in John 8:58, with Jehovah’s own unique name that was revealed to Moses:

But wherefore said He not, Before Abraham was, I was, instead of I Am? As the Father uses this expression, I Am, so also does Christ; for it signifies continuous Being, irrespective of all time. On which account the expression seemed to them to be blasphemous. Now if they could not bear the comparison with Abraham, although this was but a trifling one, had He continually made Himself equal to the Father, would they ever have ceased casting stones at Him? (John Chrysostom, Homilies on John, Homily 55 http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/240155.htm; bold and underline emphasis ours)

What’s more, the Sahidic rendering provides ancient support that the following interpretations of John 8:58 are absolutely correct:

‘Amen chtl. 1:51. Prin + acc. and infin., “before.” Genesthai (aor. mid. infin. Of ginomai) stands in sharp contrast with einai: “Before Abraham came into existence/was born, I AM.” A similar construction is found in Ps 89:2, pro hore geneetheenai … su ei, “before the mountains came into existence, you exist.” Heb. ‘ani hu’, “I (am) he” (= ‘Ego eimi in the LXX) was Yahweh’s self-designation (Isa 43:10; 46:4; 48:12). The timeless eimi points to the absolute, independent, and ETERNAL existence of Jesus; it places Jesus “in God’s existence BEYOND TIME, in his ETERNAL PRESENT” (Schnackenberg 2:223; he believes Exodus 3:14 [LXX], ‘Ego eimi ho on forms the basis of Jesus’ claim [2:224, 494 n. 144]). Barrett spells out the implications of eimi this way: “I ETERNALLY WAS, as now I am, and ever continue to be” (352). (Murray J. Harris, John: Exegetical Guide to the Greek New Testament [B & H Publishing Group, Nashville, TN 2015], p. 183; capital and underline emphasis ours)

… ‘Ego eimi may be rendered in four basic ways:

1. “I AM” (Brown 346). Jesus is claiming to bear the divine name (Isa 43:10-11; Exod 3:14) as the unique and ultimate revealer of God (cf. Brown 536-37). He is not claiming to be Yahweh himself, whether Yahweh be considered the Father or the totality of the Godhead, but he is claiming an identity of nature as the eternal Savior and a parity of status.

2. “I am he” (Schnackenberg 2:196; NIV, RSV, NRSV; Beasley-Murray 124, “I am [he]”) which is the OT revelation formula (Heb. ‘ani hu’, “I [am] he”) depicting the nature and presence of God as Savior. “[I]n Jesus God says his ‘It is I’” (Schnackenberg 2:200). Cf. ‘ego eimi, “It is I” in 6:20.

3. “I am (for ever) the same,” which is the meaning of the Heb. ‘ani hu’ (‘ego eimi in the LXX) in Isa 41:4; 43:10, 13l 46:4; 48:12 (cf. Barrett 342).

4. “I am what I am” (NEB, REB), “I Am Who I Am” (GNB; cf. Exod 3:14). (Ibid., p. 172; bold emphasis ours)

And:

They needed to believe that Jesus was “I am.” In context, this phrase has heavy theological connotations (cf. vv. 28, 58; 13:19). It appeared enigmatic at first, but later Jesus’ hearers realized that He was claiming to be God (cf. v. 59). The NIV’s “the one I claim to be” is an interpretation of Jesus’ meaning that is perhaps more misleading than helpful. Jesus was alluding to the title that God gave Himself in the Old Testament (Exod. 3:14; Deut. 32:39; Isa. 41:4; 43:10, 13, 25; 46:4; 48:12). Essentially “I am” means the eternally self-existent being.^[509] Unless a person believes that Jesus is God, in contrast with less than God, he or she will die in his or her sins…

This was the third and last of Jesus’ solemn pronouncements in this discourse (cf. vv. 34, 51). If Jesus had only wanted to claim that He existed before Abraham, He could have said, “I was.” By saying, “I am,” He was not just claiming preexistence but deity (cf. vv. 24, 28; 5:18; Exod. 3:14; Isa. 41:4; 43:13).

“It is eternity of being and not simply being that has lasted through several centuries that the expression indicates.”^[534]

“The meaning here is: Before Abraham came into being, I eternally was, as now I am, and ever continue to be.”^[535]

Jesus existed before Abraham came into being (Gr. genesthai).

[509] See Charles Gianotti, “The Meaning of the Divine Name YHWH,” Bibliotheca Sacra 142:565 (January-March 1985):38-51…

[534] Morris, p. 420.

[535] Barrett, p. 352. (Dr. Thomas L. Constable, Notes on John, 2016 Edition http://www.soniclight.com/constable/notes/htm/NT/John/John.htm; bold emphasis ours)

All of this shows that the Sahidic translator(s) clearly understood the Son to be fully divine, and therefore coequal with God the Father in essence.

As such, the employment of the indefinite article in John 1:1c cannot possibly mean that the producer(s) of this ancient version believed that Christ was a secondary, inferior divine being to the one true God. Rather, it seems reasonably certain that the indefinite article was used to differentiate the Word from the God he was with, i.e., the Father, while also emphasizing the qualities or nature of the Word, e.g., that the Word was God in nature, and therefore essentially one with the God with whom he has eternally existed.

This is precisely what the Greek of John 1:1 conveys:

1 “In the beginning” recalls the opening words of Genesis 1:1: “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.” The expression does not refer to a particular moment of time but assumes A TIMELESS ETERNITY…  The preposition “with” in the phrase “the Word was with God” indicates both equality and distinction of identity along with association. The phrase can be rendered “face to face with.” It may, therefore, imply personality, coexistence with the Creator, and yet be an expression of his creative being. The position of the noun God in the Greek text marks it as a predicate, stressing description rather than individualization. The “Word” was deity, one with God, rather than “a god” or another being of the same class. This is THE REAL MEANING OF THE PHRASE. Unity of nature rather than similarity or likeness is implied. The eternal coexistence and unity of the Word with God is unmistakably asserted. (Merrill C. Tenney, The Expositor’s Bible Commentary with the New International Version (John and Acts), Frank E. Gaebelein (general editor) [Zondervan, Grand Rapids, MI 1981], Volume 9, p. 28; capital and underline emphasis ours)

The greenhorn himself provides implicit corroboration for my argument since he candidly admits that the Sahidic Coptic version was produced by Trinitarians:

“…but they chose to specifically write John 1:1c as “the word was a god” despite being Trinitarians themselves…” (Bold and italicized emphasis ours)

Now who in their right mind would think for a moment that these Trinitarians meant to depict Christ as a lesser, inferior deity to the one true God solely because they placed the indefinite article before the word God, seeing that they all believed that Jesus is the second Person of the Godhead, and therefore eternally coequal to the Father in essence?

I’m not through with this Muslim greenhorn just yet, since I have more to say in the next segment of my rebuttal https://answeringislamblog.wordpress.com/2018/12/29/dismantling-the-muhammadan-perception-of-john-11-pt-2/.

Source: https://answeringislamblog.wordpress.com/2018/12/28/dismantling-the-muhammadan-perception-of-john-11-pt-1/

IHS

The Apostle Paul Proclaims the True Gospel of Christ: Responding to a Misleading Meme

I am going to addressing a meme shared by Muslim apologist Paul Bilal Williams. The meme seeks to pit the Lord Jesus against the blessed Apostle Paul by implying that they didn’t preach the same Gospel. Here’s what it says:

OBSERVE – What the Lord Jesus Christ preached:

And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS. Matthew 19:16,17 (KJV)

OBSERVE – What the Apostle preached:

and brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. Acts 16:30,31 (KJV)

THEY’RE NOT THE SAME GOSPEL. (Insightful Quote https://bloggingtheology2.com/2018/12/23/insightful-quote/)

Since Acts was quoted, I am going to also cite from Luke since both books were written by one and the same author as the following references indicate:

“Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us, even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word; it seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus, that thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.” Luke 1:1-4

“The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach, until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen: to whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God: and, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.” Acts 1:1-5

It is clear from these verses that the same inspired writer who composed Acts also produced Luke’s Gospel, since both of these writings mention the same recipient, namely Theophilus, and Acts even refers to the author’s previous treatise to this same individual.

As such, I am going to see what both Luke and Acts have to say in respect to the Gospel that Christ and his disciples preached. I begin with Luke’s version of the Lord’s encounter with the rich young ruler:

“And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God. Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother. And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up. Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, FOLLOW ME. And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich. And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God! For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle’s eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. And they that heard it said, Who then can be saved? And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God. Then Peter said, Lo, we have left all, and FOLLOW THEE. And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or parents, or brethren, or wife, or children, for the kingdom of God’s sake, who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting.” Luke 18:18-30

The Lord clearly teaches that everlasting life does not come by obeying the commandments, but by giving up everything in order to follow Christ. And here’s what the risen Lord instructed his Apostles before physically ascending into heaven:

“And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached IN HIS NAME among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.” Luke 24:44-47

The risen Christ expressly teaches that salvation is to be proclaimed in his name, i.e., by turning to and trusting in the Lord Jesus, which is precisely what the Apostles preached according to the book of Acts:

“And as the lame man which was healed held Peter and John, all the people ran together unto them in the porch that is called Solomon’s, greatly wondering. And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk? The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go. But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you; and killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses. And HIS NAME through faith IN HIS NAME hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all… Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.” Acts 3:11-16, 25-26

“And it came to pass on the morrow, that their rulers, and elders, and scribes, and Annas the high priest, and Caiaphas, and John, and Alexander, and as many as were of the kindred of the high priest, were gathered together at Jerusalem. And when they had set them in the midst, they asked, By what power, or by what name, have ye done this? Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel, if we this day be examined of the good deed done to the impotent man, by what means he is made whole; be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that BY THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST OF NAZARETH, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus. And beholding the man which was healed standing with them, they could say nothing against it.” Acts 4:5-14

The Apostles perform a miraculous healing by the power of the risen Christ in order to prove that salvation only comes by believing/trusting in the name of the Lord Jesus, since it is Christ who grants repentance and forgiveness to his people, and to all who would turn to him:

“Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.” Acts 2:37-41

“Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.” Acts 5:31

“Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them. And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did. For unclean spirits, crying with loud voice, came out of many that were possessed with them: and many taken with palsies, and that were lame, were healed. And there was great joy in that city. But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one: to whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God. And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries. But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done… And the angel of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying, Arise, and go toward the south unto the way that goeth down from Jerusalem unto Gaza, which is desert. And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship, was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet. Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot. And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest? And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him. The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth: in his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth. And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man? Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.” Acts 8:5-13, 26-38

“The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all) that word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judæa, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree: him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly; not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead. And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. To him give all the prophets witness, that THROUGH HIS NAME whosoever believeth IN HIM shall receive remission of sins. While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized IN THE NAME OF THE LORD. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.” Acts 10:36-48

The message of the Apostles and their followers is clear. A person is saved by the grace of the Lord Jesus through faith in him:

“And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; and put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.” Acts 15:7-11

In fact, the reason why the blessed Paul preached that salvation only comes by believing in the Lord Jesus,

“Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that THROUGH THIS MAN is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: and BY HIM all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.” Acts 13:38-39

Is because this is the very message that the risen Lord told the Apostle to preach when he appeared to him in his heavenly splendor!

“Whereupon as I went to Damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests, at midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me. And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, to open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.” Acts 26:12-18

Therefore, contrary to what the meme claims, the Apostle Paul proclaimed the same exact gospel that the Lord Jesus and the rest of the Apostles and their disciples preached.

What About Matthew?

Now let’s see what happens when we read Matthew 19:16-17 in its immediate context:

“He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and FOLLOW ME. But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions. Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible. Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, FOR MY NAME’S SAKE, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.” Matthew 19:18-29

Our Lord affirms that everlasting life does not come from obeying the commandments, but by a person’s willingness to give up everything for the sake of Christ. Our Lord repeated this message on more than one occasion:

“He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life FOR MY SAKE shall find it.” Matthew 10:37-39

“Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, AND FOLLOW ME. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for MY SAKE shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.” Matthew 16:24-27

Christ demands that an individual must love him unconditionally, wholeheartedly, even more than one’s very own life, if that person wants to obtain salvation.

Matthew is also clear that Jesus came into the world to save his people from their sins by offering his very own life as a vicarious sacrifice:

“And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.” Matthew 1:21

“even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.” Matthew 20:28

“And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body. And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; for this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.” Matthew 26:26-28

Thus, the foregoing affirms that an honest, fair and consistent reading of Matthew’s Gospel will show that Jesus personally taught that everlasting life is granted to all those who are willing to give up everything for Christ’s sake, since the Lord obtained salvation by his sacrificial death for the sins of all those who would trust in him.

Source: https://answeringislamblog.wordpress.com/2018/12/24/the-apostle-paul-proclaims-the-true-gospel-of-christ-responding-to-a-misleading-meme/

IHS

Refuting One Muhammadan’s Rabbit Trails

I am going to repost my challenge to a rather vile Muhammadan who wrote a post attacking the Bible for a supposed error concerning its teaching that rabbits chew the cud (https://bloggingtheology2.com/2018/12/07/on-rabbits-and-rumination-a-response-to-christian-interpretations-of-leviticus-115-6/). Suffice it to say the Muhammadan never answered my challenge, and after you read this post you will see why. So enjoy!

HAHAHAHA right back at ya! It’s sad that Williams allows you to even post here since it brings the value of his site way down.

With that said, since you introduced a red herring which I am and will continue to obliterate, I am going to follow suit and raise up an issue for you to address honestly, which I know is impossible for you to do.

According to your profit, Jesus was sent to confirm the Torah in his possession:

And He will teach him the Book and the wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel… “attesting to WHAT IS BETWEEN MY HANDS (Wamusaddiqan lima bayna yadayya) OF THE TORAH, and to make lawful to you a part of that which is forbidden to you.” S. 3:48, 50

And in their footsteps (of Moses and the Jews) We sent Jesus the son of Mary, attesting to the Torah WHICH WAS BETWEEN HIS HANDS (musaddiqan lima bayna yadayhi); and We gave him the Gospel – therein is guidance and light and attesting to the Torah WHICH WAS BETWEEN HIS HANDS (wamusaddiqan lima bayna yadayhi): a guidance and an admonition to the righteous. S. 5:46

Then will God say, “O Jesus son of Mary! Recount my favor to you and to your mother when I strengthened you with the Holy Spirit, so that you spoke to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught you the Book and Wisdom, the Torah and the Gospel…” S. 5:110

And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said: ‘Oh Children of Israel! I am the apostle of God to you, CONFIRMING THAT WHICH IS BETWEEN MY HANDS from the Torah (musaddiqan lima bayna yadayya mina al-tawrati)…” S. 61:6

The Sunni Muslim commentator Ibn Kathir comments on Sura 3:50:

… The Tawrah is the Book THAT ALLAH SENT DOWN TO MUSA, son of Imran, while the Injil is what Allah sent down to Isa, son of Maryam, peace be upon them, AND ISA MEMORIZED BOTH BOOKS…

affirming the Tawrah AND UPHOLDING IT,” (Tafsir Ibn Kathir, Abridged, Volume 2, parts 3,4 & 5, Surat Al-Baqarah, Verse 253, to Surat An-Nisa, Verse 147 [March 2000], pp. 163, 165 http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=538&Itemid=46; capital emphasis ours)

Jesus, according to Ibn Kathir, memorized and upheld the Torah that God taught him, even though Muhammadans like you would have us believe that in reality this was a corrupted Torah! And:

… meaning, he believed in it AND RULED BY IT…

meaning, HE ADHERED TO THE TAWRAH, except for the few instances that clarified the truth where the Children of Israel differed. Allah states in another Ayah that ‘Isa said to the Children of Israel,…

So the scholars say that the Injil abrogated some of the rulings of the Tawrah… (Tafsir Ibn Kathir, Abridged, Volume 3, Parts 6, 7 & 8, Surat An-Nisa, Verse 148 to the end of Surat Al-An’am, Abridged by a group of scholars under the supervision of Shaykh Safiur-Rahman Al-Mubarakpuri [Darussalam Publishers & Distributors, Riyadh, Houston, New York, Lahore; January 2000, first edition], pp. 193-194 http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=769&Itemid=60; capital emphasis ours)

Finally:

‘Isa said, “The Tawrah conveyed the glad tidings of my coming, and my coming CONFIRMS THE TRUTH OF THE TAWRAH…” (Tafsir Ibn Kathir, Abridged, Volume 9, Surat Al-Jathiyah to the end of Surat Al-Munafiqun [September 2000, first edition], p. 617 http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1368&Itemid=117; capital emphasis ours)

Make sure you don’t do your Islamic tap dance and bark wildly, by evading what these texts are saying, since all of the passages and citations affirm that Jesus testified and confirmed THE TORAH which the Jews possessed in his day, which Ibn Kathir says was the same that Moses received. Not a word is said about the Torah being corrupted.

And here is what the Islamic sources say regarding your profit’s attitude in respect to the Torah in his possession:

36 Tribulations

(26) Chapter: The disappearance of the Quran and Knowledge

It was narrated that Ziyad bin Labid said:

“The Prophet mentioned something and said: ‘That will be at the time when knowledge (of Qur’an) disappears.’ I said: ‘O Messenger of Allah, how will knowledge disappear when we read the Qur’an and teach it to our children, until the Day of Resurrection?’ He said: ‘May your mother be bereft of you, Ziyad! I thought that you were the wisest man in Al- Madinah. Is it not the case that these Jews and Christians READ THE TAWRAH AND THE INJIL, but they do not act upon anything of what is in them?’”

Grade: Da’if (Darussalam)

Reference: Sunan Ibn Majah 4048

In-book reference: Book 36, Hadith 123

English translation: Vol. 5, Book 36, Hadith 4048 (sunnah.com https://sunnah.com/ibnmajah/36/123; capital emphasis ours)

41 Chapters on Knowledge

(5) Chapter: What Has Been Related About Knowledge Leaving

Narrated Jubair bin Nufair:

from Abu Ad-Darda who said: “We were with the Prophet when he raised his sight to the sky, then he said: ‘This is the time when knowledge is to be taken from the people, until what remains of it shall not amount to anything.” So Ziyad bin Labid Al-Ansari said: ‘How will it be taken from us while we recite the Qur’an. By Allah we recite it, and our women and children recite it?’ He said: ‘May you be bereaved of your mother O Ziyad! I used to consider you among the Fuqaha of the people of Al-Madinah. The Tawrah and Injil ARE WITH THE JEWS AND CHRISTIANS, but what do they avail of them?‘” Jubair said: “So I met ‘Ubadah bin As-Samit and said to him: ‘Have you not heard what your brother Abu Ad-Darda said?’ Then I informed him of what Abu Ad-Darda said. He said: ‘Abu Ad-Darda spoke the truth. If you wish, we shall narrated to you about the first knowledge to be removed from the people: It is Khushu’, soon you will enter the congregational Masjid, but not see any man in it with Khushu’.’”

Grade: SAHIH (Darussalam)

Reference: Jami` at-Tirmidhi 2653

In Book Reference: Book 41, Hadith 9

English translation: Vol. 5, Book 39, Hadith 2653 (sunnah.com https://sunnah.com/tirmidhi/41/9; capital emphasis ours)

Narrated Abdullah Ibn Umar:A group of Jews came and invited the Apostle of Allah to Quff. So he visited them in their school.

They said: AbulQasim, one of our men has committed fornication with a woman; so pronounce judgment upon them. They placed a cushion for the Apostle of Allah who sat on it and said: Bring the Torah. It was then brought. He then withdrew the cushion from beneath him AND PLACED THE TORAH ON IT saying: I BELIEVED IN THEE and in Him WHO REVEALED THEE.

He then said: Bring me one who is learned among you. Then a young man was brought. The transmitter then mentioned the rest of the tradition of stoning similar to the one transmitted by Malik from Nafi’ (No. 4431).”

Grade: Hasan (Al-Albani) (Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 38. Kitab al Hudud (“The Book of Prescribed Punishments”), Number 4434 https://sunnah.com/abudawud/40/99; capital emphasis ours)

Not only does your profit claim that the Jews and Christians of his day possessed the uncorrupt Torah and Gospel, not a corrupted version of these revelations, he even shows love and respect for the very copy of the Torah in the possession of the Jews, which he places on a cushion and bears witness to his absolute faith in it!

In fact, Ibn Taymiyya’s premiere student stated that Muslim scholars used this very hadith and Quran 6:115 to prove that the Torah is incorruptible:

On the other side, another party of hadith and fiqh scholars said: these changes took place during its interpretation and not during the process of its revelation. This is the view OF ABI ABDULLAH MUHAMMAD BIN ISHMAEL AL-BUKHARI who said in his hadith collection:

NO ONE CAN CORRUPT THE TEXT BY REMOVING ANY OF ALLAH’S WORDS FROM HIS BOOKS, but they corrupted it by misinterpreting it.

Al-Razi ALSO AGREES WITH THIS OPINION. In his commentary he said:

There is a difference of opinions regarding this matter among some of the respectable scholars. Some of these scholars said: the manuscript copies of the Torah were distributed everywhere and no one knows the exact number of these copies except Allah. It is impossible to have a conspiracy to change or alter the word of God in all of these copies without missing any copy. Such a conspiracy will not be logical or possible. And when Allah told his messenger (Muhammad) to ask the Jews to bring their Torah and read it concerning the stoning command they were not able to change this command from their copies, that is why they covered up the stoning verse while they were reading it to the prophet. It was then when Abdullah Ibn Salam requested that they remove their hand so that the verse became clear. If they have changed or altered the Torah then this verse would have been one of the important verses to be altered by the Jews.

Also, whenever the prophet would ask them (the Jews) concerning the prophecies about him in the Torah they were not able to remove them either, and they would respond by stating that they are not about him and they are still waiting for the prophet in their Torah.

Abu Dawood narrated in his collection that Ibn Umar said:

A group of Jewish people invited the messenger of Allah to a house. When he came, they asked him: O Abu Qassim, one of our men committed adultery with a woman, what is your judgment against him? So they placed a pillow and asked the messenger of Allah to set on it. Then the messenger of Allah proceeded to say: BRING ME THE TORAH. When they brought it, he removed the pillow from underneath him AND PLACED THE TORAH ON IT and said: I BELIEVE IN YOU AND IN THE ONE WHO REVEALED YOU, then said: bring me one of you who have the most knowledge. So they brought him a young man who told him the story of the stoning.

The scholars said: if the Torah was corrupted HE WOULD NOT HAVE PLACED IT ON THE PILLOW AND HE WOULD NOT HAVE SAID: I believe in you and in the one who revealed you.

This group of scholars also said: Allah said:

“And the word of your Lord has been accomplished truly and justly; there is none who can change His words, and He is the Hearing, the Knowing.” (Q. 6:115)

And the Torah is Allah’s word. (Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyyah, Ighathat Al Lahfan, Volume 2, p. 351; capital emphasis ours)

Notice, once again, that Muhammad affirmed the very copy of the Torah which the Jews handed him as the uncorrupt revelation of his god, testifying that he believed in its absolute authority without a single word about it’s being corrupted. And the reasoning which these Muslim scholars employed to affirm the incorruptibility of the Torah is sound, since both their premises and the conclusion they drew from them are logically valid:

1. None can change or corrupt the words of Allah.
2. Books such as the Torah and the Gospel are the words of Allah.
3. Therefore, none can change or corrupt the text of any of Allah’s Books such as the Torah and the Gospel.

With the foregoing in view, here’s my first question to show why you have no business in apologetics and should actually be selling cars for a living. Did the Torah that Jesus and Muhammad have access to contain the verse of Leviticus 11:6?

I hope your stupid enough to quote verses from the Quran such as Q. 2:79 to try to tap dance around this since I am going to have a field day exposing you, your profit and his deity.

Like I said, I am going to have lots of fun at the expense of you, your profit and his lord.

So go ahead and make my day! 

Source: https://answeringislamblog.wordpress.com/2018/12/13/refuting-one-muhammadans-rabbit-trails/

IHS