Exposing More of Zawadi’s Gross Blunders and
Mistakes
Sam Shamoun
Continuing from Part I
More of Zawadi’s gross blunders and blatant inconsistencies
To make matters worse Zawadi’s “reply” to Dr. White contradicts what he had written in response to Christian apologist David Wood concerning the Bible prophesying the advent of Muhammad:
The Qur'an EXPRESSLY STATES THAT BOTH THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENTS contain references to Muhammad:
Those who follow the Messenger, The unlettered Prophet, Whom they find mentioned In their own (Scriptures) - In the Law and the Gospel?... It is they who will prosper. (Qur'an 7:157)[2]
And remember, Jesus, The son of Mary, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah (Sent) to you, confirming The Law (which came) Before me, and giving Glad Tidings of a Messenger To come after me, Whose name shall be Ahmad [i.e. Muhammad]." (Qur'an 61:6) (Rebuttal to David Wood's Article "Muhammad in the Bible?: An Analysis of the Muslim Appeal to Biblical Prophecy"; bold and capital emphasis ours)
By citing Q. 7:157 Zawadi has not only identified and equated the Torah with the Old Testament he has further confirmed that the Gospel which the Quran mentions is actually the New Testament which Christians possess!
Notice Zawadi’s words carefully here. He does not argue that the Quran claims that the “original” Torah and Gospel contain predictions of Muhammad. Zawadi clearly says the Islamic scripture affirms that there are predictions of Muhammad in the Old and New Testaments! This means that when Zawadi goes on to write the following right afterwards,
I want to make it clear from the beginning what Muslims actually believe. We believe that Muhammad was predicted in the original Torah and Gospel revealed to Moses and Jesus respectively. Some of these prophecies happened to remain preserved and found their way into the Bible, which also contains much falsehood according to Islamic teachings.
He is merely contradicting himself. Zawadi must either accept that the Quran is identifying the Old and New Testaments as the Torah and the Gospel respectively, or must face the fact that he is grossly mistaken and made a huge blunder by saying that the Quran testifies that the Old and New Testaments contain predictions of Muhammad. After all, if the Torah and the Gospel are not the Old and New Testaments then this means that the Quran says absolutely nothing about Muhammad being predicted in the books that are found within these two Testaments.
But it gets worse for Zawadi since he also writes:
The book of Acts is not the Gospel, thus I don't know how it is relevant to the discussion [sic]. Secondly, the verse itself does not clearly indicate that what is promised to come (The Comforter) is the Holy Spirit that they will be baptized with.
However, if Acts isn’t the Gospel then why did Zawadi mention the New Testament when quoting Q. 7:157 which refers to the unlettered Prophet that is announced in the Gospel? Isn’t Acts part of the New Testament? And if the New Testament is the Gospel mentioned in Q. 7:157 then surely Acts must be considered the Gospel as well according to Zawadi’s own argument!
So which is it? Which position of Zawadi’s should we believe? Should we accept his assertion that the Quran expressly states that both the Old and New Testaments mention Muhammad, which means that the Quran is equating these Scriptures with the Torah and the Gospel? Or should we believe that the Old and New Testaments are not the “original” Torah and Gospel revealed to Moses and the Lord Jesus? Can Zawadi ever make up his mind and stop contradicting himself as often as he does?
More importantly, how can he attack Dr. White on a point that he himself agrees with since Zawadi himself identifies the Torah and Gospel as the Old and New Testaments (even though this was clearly a huge blunder on his part, one which cost him dearly)? According to Zawadi’s own criterion doesn’t this prove that he is downright arrogant and rather ignorant since he, like White, inadvertently identified the Torah as the Old Testament and the Gospel as the New Testament?
The Holy Bible has a few words to say to people like Zawadi who, in their arrogance, think that they are actually offering a meaningful rebuttal to the arguments of their opponents:
“When pride comes, then comes dishonour, but with the humble is wisdom.” Proverbs 11:2
“Pride goes before destruction, And a haughty spirit before stumbling.” Proverbs 16:18
“Before destruction the heart of man is haughty, But humility goes before honor. He who gives an answer before he hears, It is folly and shame to him.” Proverbs 18:12-13
“A man who hardens his neck after much reproof Will suddenly be broken beyond remedy… A man's pride will bring him low, But a humble spirit will obtain honor.” Proverbs 29:1, 23
It has been clear to us that Zawadi simply doesn’t want to accept reproof and refuses to learn from all the countless times that we have exposed his inability to comprehend his opponent’s arguments as well as his blatant willingness to distort the facts to suit his purpose. This is why Zawadi is constantly getting embarrassed because, as the Holy Scriptures say, the risen and immortal Lord will expose and humble such arrogant and stubborn persons who refuse to submit to his Word.
Lord Jesus willing, there will be further rebuttals to Zawadi’s inconsistencies, distortions and lies to follow shortly.
OPEN CHALLENGE: WE CHALLENGE ZAWADI TO PRODUCE ONE SINGLE VERSE FROM THE ENTIRE QURAN WHERE IT SAYS THAT ALLAH REVEALED THE TORAH TO MOSES. WE WOULD LIKE FOR HIM TO SHOW US A SINGLE PLACE WHERE HIS "HOLY" BOOK SAYS THAT MOSES RECEIVED THE TORAH.
Related Articles
http://answering-islam.org/Responses/Meherally/bible.htm
http://answering-islam.org/Responses/Meherally/bible2.htm
http://answering-islam.org/Responses/Meherally/bible_r1.htm
http://answering-islam.org/Responses/Meherally/bible_r2.htm
http://answering-islam.org/Responses/Meherally/bible_r3.htm
http://answering-islam.org/Responses/Meherally/taurat.htm
http://answering-islam.org/Responses/Meherally/taurat_challenge.htm
Appendix
Zawadi has produced an appendix to his initial article in order to interact with my criticisms.
Zawadi starts out by raising a red herring since he asserts that I ignored all the “crystal clear statements” which he thinks illustrates that James White is ignorant concerning basic matters about Islam. The problem with this claim is that my purpose wasn’t to address all of Zawadi’s false accusations in this particular rebuttal since that will come later if the Lord Jesus wills. The point of this specific response was to show how Zawadi committed a blunder regarding what the Quran says concerning the revelation of the Torah and that he was wrong for attacking Dr. White’s integrity and character. Since Zawadi acknowledges that he made a mistake and candidly admits that the Quran never says that the Torah was given to Moses this means that by the sovereign grace of the Triune God I successfully established what I had set out to prove.
Now the honest person would have left it at that and retracted his attack against Dr. White, at least in regards to this point. However, Zawadi can’t leave well enough alone and feels the need to save face by coming up with some excuse justifying his gross blunder. Zawadi appeals to what he had written elsewhere regarding how the Quran uses the terms Torah and the Gospel in order to show that he is fully aware that the Islamic scripture applies these terms in reference to the Old and New Testaments:
The main problem with Christians who put forth these arguments is that they fail to identify and understand how the Qur'an uses the terms 'Torah' and 'Gospel' in the Qur'an. When the Qur'an talks about the Torah and Gospel, one of its intentions is to speak about the original revelations sent to Moses and Jesus peace be upon them both respectively. Sometimes the Qur'an or authentic hadith MIGHT APPEAR to be speaking about the Torah and Gospel, which Jews and Christians refer to.
For example, when I debate the topic 'Did Jesus Claim Divinity' with Christians, I usually issue this challenge 'Show me where Jesus claimed divinity in the Gospel'. Now, my intention here is that I am referring to the Gospel referred to by Christians and that is the combined four gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. However, my intention is not to state that this is the actual Gospel that God revealed to Jesus peace be upon him. So the word is used in different contexts and Christians fail to identify this when it comes to studying the Qur'an and authentic hadith. (Refuting The Argument Regarding The Qur'an Ordering The Jews And Christians To Judge By Their Scriptures; capital emphasis ours)
Doesn’t Zawadi realize that this only provides further evidence that he is inconsistent and dishonest? Doesn’t he see that this simply demonstrates that he contradicted himself since he obviously forgot what he had written in his previous articles?
Notice once again his assault against Dr. White:
This is a joke, where does the Qur'an say that the Torah is the Old Testament law? The Qur'an said that the Torah was revealed to Moses. How could the Old Testament law have been revealed to Moses when even many conservative evangelical scholars even admit that Joshua contributed to it?
Zawadi chides Dr. White for stating that the Quran uses the word Torah for the Old Testament Law, going so far as to call what he said a joke! But seeing that Zawadi admits that the Torah in the Quran can mean and does refer to the Old Testament why then did he take Dr. White to task? Why did he insult Dr. White and call his statements a joke?
The reason is clear. Zawadi forgot what he had written and thought he had caught Dr. White in a mistake and in his arrogance went on the attack. Little did he realize that this blunder would come back to bite him and expose his intellectual ineptness.
Moreover, in the same paragraph where he admits that he was mistaken Zawadi comes up with another excuse to justify his gross blunder:
As for Shamoun's second question, I will have to admit that I made a mistake when I said that the Qur'an says that the Torah was revealed to Moses. Sometimes as a Muslim I mistakenly say "Qur'an" instead of "Islam". Islamic teachings consist of both the Qur'an and the authentic hadeeth.
The problem with this assertion is that Dr. White said nothing about “Islam,” i.e. the Quran AND the authentic hadiths, identifying the Torah as the Old Testament Law. Dr. White explicitly stated that the Quran says that God sent down the Torah, which he then identified as the Old Testament Law. So if Zawadi meant that it is the so-called authentic hadith which asserts that the "original" Torah was revealed to Moses then he had no business to attack Dr. White since the latter wasn’t speaking of the ahadith.
Besides, as we demonstrated in this very rebuttal even these allegedly sound narratives identify the Torah in the possession of the Jews at Muhammad’s time as the very revelation which God gave to Moses! And since the only Torah which these Jews had at that time is the very Pentateuch or the first five books of the Old Testament which we currently possess this means that Dr. White was right!
As if Zawadi couldn’t make it any worse for himself he goes on to attack a straw man and in so doing only further embarrasses himself. He mentions that Ibn Kathir claimed that the story of Adam in the Old Testament was false and deceptive in order to show that this renowned Muslim expositor believed that these Scriptures were corrupt and unreliable. He then argues that the Salaf didn’t believe that the two Testaments were the Torah revealed to Moses!
As anyone who has actually taken the time to read my article carefully can testify I said absolutely nothing about the Salaf believing that the two Testaments were the revelation given to Moses, nor did I ever claim that Ibn Kathir viewed the Old Testament as completely reliable. My only point in referencing them was to establish that the word Torah is not limited to the revelations which Moses received since the first generation of Muslims used it to refer to the other inspired Books that God had sent down.
In fact, Zawadi himself admits as much since he later writes:
Hence, they had no problem in recognizing that the word Torah could in certain contexts refer to the original revelation sent to Moses AND IN OTHER CONTEXTS REFER TO THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENTS. (Emphasis ours)
Therefore, since Zawadi acknowledges that the early Muslims would refer to both the Old and New Testaments as the Torah this means that he was wrong for attacking Dr. White since it turns out that the latter was right after all. The simple matter is that it was Zawadi who was grossly mistaken.
Zawadi then quotes specific narratives from al-Bukhari which speak of Allah revealing the Torah to Moses so as to prove that the early Muslims and Islamic scholars were aware of these hadiths and therefore knew that the Torah was given to Moses. Seeing that I never contested this fact this further shows that Zawadi is doing nothing more than attack a straw man again.
Zawadi needs to face the music and accept the fact that he is not qualified to defend Islam or criticize the arguments of his opponents. Zawadi is simply doing more harm than good by producing articles that are filled with logical fallacies, gross misrepresentations of sources, outright distortions of facts, and major blunders which result in serious embarrassment for his fellow Muslims and his religion. If Zawadi really loves Islam then he should stop producing articles that only hinder the Islamic cause since his “replies” demonstrate why Islamic apologetics are intellectually bankrupt and dishonest. His arguments go a long a way in demonstrating why any serious student of truth should never be a follower of the false prophet Muhammad but should actually be repulsed by the Muslim god and the vile and immoral teachings of this wicked false religion.
Source: http://answering-islam.org/authors/shamoun/rebuttals/zawadi/ignorance_arrogance.html
IHS
Sam Shamoun
Continuing from Part I
More of Zawadi’s gross blunders and blatant inconsistencies
To make matters worse Zawadi’s “reply” to Dr. White contradicts what he had written in response to Christian apologist David Wood concerning the Bible prophesying the advent of Muhammad:
The Qur'an EXPRESSLY STATES THAT BOTH THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENTS contain references to Muhammad:
Those who follow the Messenger, The unlettered Prophet, Whom they find mentioned In their own (Scriptures) - In the Law and the Gospel?... It is they who will prosper. (Qur'an 7:157)[2]
And remember, Jesus, The son of Mary, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah (Sent) to you, confirming The Law (which came) Before me, and giving Glad Tidings of a Messenger To come after me, Whose name shall be Ahmad [i.e. Muhammad]." (Qur'an 61:6) (Rebuttal to David Wood's Article "Muhammad in the Bible?: An Analysis of the Muslim Appeal to Biblical Prophecy"; bold and capital emphasis ours)
By citing Q. 7:157 Zawadi has not only identified and equated the Torah with the Old Testament he has further confirmed that the Gospel which the Quran mentions is actually the New Testament which Christians possess!
Notice Zawadi’s words carefully here. He does not argue that the Quran claims that the “original” Torah and Gospel contain predictions of Muhammad. Zawadi clearly says the Islamic scripture affirms that there are predictions of Muhammad in the Old and New Testaments! This means that when Zawadi goes on to write the following right afterwards,
I want to make it clear from the beginning what Muslims actually believe. We believe that Muhammad was predicted in the original Torah and Gospel revealed to Moses and Jesus respectively. Some of these prophecies happened to remain preserved and found their way into the Bible, which also contains much falsehood according to Islamic teachings.
He is merely contradicting himself. Zawadi must either accept that the Quran is identifying the Old and New Testaments as the Torah and the Gospel respectively, or must face the fact that he is grossly mistaken and made a huge blunder by saying that the Quran testifies that the Old and New Testaments contain predictions of Muhammad. After all, if the Torah and the Gospel are not the Old and New Testaments then this means that the Quran says absolutely nothing about Muhammad being predicted in the books that are found within these two Testaments.
But it gets worse for Zawadi since he also writes:
The book of Acts is not the Gospel, thus I don't know how it is relevant to the discussion [sic]. Secondly, the verse itself does not clearly indicate that what is promised to come (The Comforter) is the Holy Spirit that they will be baptized with.
However, if Acts isn’t the Gospel then why did Zawadi mention the New Testament when quoting Q. 7:157 which refers to the unlettered Prophet that is announced in the Gospel? Isn’t Acts part of the New Testament? And if the New Testament is the Gospel mentioned in Q. 7:157 then surely Acts must be considered the Gospel as well according to Zawadi’s own argument!
So which is it? Which position of Zawadi’s should we believe? Should we accept his assertion that the Quran expressly states that both the Old and New Testaments mention Muhammad, which means that the Quran is equating these Scriptures with the Torah and the Gospel? Or should we believe that the Old and New Testaments are not the “original” Torah and Gospel revealed to Moses and the Lord Jesus? Can Zawadi ever make up his mind and stop contradicting himself as often as he does?
More importantly, how can he attack Dr. White on a point that he himself agrees with since Zawadi himself identifies the Torah and Gospel as the Old and New Testaments (even though this was clearly a huge blunder on his part, one which cost him dearly)? According to Zawadi’s own criterion doesn’t this prove that he is downright arrogant and rather ignorant since he, like White, inadvertently identified the Torah as the Old Testament and the Gospel as the New Testament?
The Holy Bible has a few words to say to people like Zawadi who, in their arrogance, think that they are actually offering a meaningful rebuttal to the arguments of their opponents:
“When pride comes, then comes dishonour, but with the humble is wisdom.” Proverbs 11:2
“Pride goes before destruction, And a haughty spirit before stumbling.” Proverbs 16:18
“Before destruction the heart of man is haughty, But humility goes before honor. He who gives an answer before he hears, It is folly and shame to him.” Proverbs 18:12-13
“A man who hardens his neck after much reproof Will suddenly be broken beyond remedy… A man's pride will bring him low, But a humble spirit will obtain honor.” Proverbs 29:1, 23
It has been clear to us that Zawadi simply doesn’t want to accept reproof and refuses to learn from all the countless times that we have exposed his inability to comprehend his opponent’s arguments as well as his blatant willingness to distort the facts to suit his purpose. This is why Zawadi is constantly getting embarrassed because, as the Holy Scriptures say, the risen and immortal Lord will expose and humble such arrogant and stubborn persons who refuse to submit to his Word.
Lord Jesus willing, there will be further rebuttals to Zawadi’s inconsistencies, distortions and lies to follow shortly.
OPEN CHALLENGE: WE CHALLENGE ZAWADI TO PRODUCE ONE SINGLE VERSE FROM THE ENTIRE QURAN WHERE IT SAYS THAT ALLAH REVEALED THE TORAH TO MOSES. WE WOULD LIKE FOR HIM TO SHOW US A SINGLE PLACE WHERE HIS "HOLY" BOOK SAYS THAT MOSES RECEIVED THE TORAH.
Related Articles
http://answering-islam.org/Responses/Meherally/bible.htm
http://answering-islam.org/Responses/Meherally/bible2.htm
http://answering-islam.org/Responses/Meherally/bible_r1.htm
http://answering-islam.org/Responses/Meherally/bible_r2.htm
http://answering-islam.org/Responses/Meherally/bible_r3.htm
http://answering-islam.org/Responses/Meherally/taurat.htm
http://answering-islam.org/Responses/Meherally/taurat_challenge.htm
Appendix
Zawadi has produced an appendix to his initial article in order to interact with my criticisms.
Zawadi starts out by raising a red herring since he asserts that I ignored all the “crystal clear statements” which he thinks illustrates that James White is ignorant concerning basic matters about Islam. The problem with this claim is that my purpose wasn’t to address all of Zawadi’s false accusations in this particular rebuttal since that will come later if the Lord Jesus wills. The point of this specific response was to show how Zawadi committed a blunder regarding what the Quran says concerning the revelation of the Torah and that he was wrong for attacking Dr. White’s integrity and character. Since Zawadi acknowledges that he made a mistake and candidly admits that the Quran never says that the Torah was given to Moses this means that by the sovereign grace of the Triune God I successfully established what I had set out to prove.
Now the honest person would have left it at that and retracted his attack against Dr. White, at least in regards to this point. However, Zawadi can’t leave well enough alone and feels the need to save face by coming up with some excuse justifying his gross blunder. Zawadi appeals to what he had written elsewhere regarding how the Quran uses the terms Torah and the Gospel in order to show that he is fully aware that the Islamic scripture applies these terms in reference to the Old and New Testaments:
The main problem with Christians who put forth these arguments is that they fail to identify and understand how the Qur'an uses the terms 'Torah' and 'Gospel' in the Qur'an. When the Qur'an talks about the Torah and Gospel, one of its intentions is to speak about the original revelations sent to Moses and Jesus peace be upon them both respectively. Sometimes the Qur'an or authentic hadith MIGHT APPEAR to be speaking about the Torah and Gospel, which Jews and Christians refer to.
For example, when I debate the topic 'Did Jesus Claim Divinity' with Christians, I usually issue this challenge 'Show me where Jesus claimed divinity in the Gospel'. Now, my intention here is that I am referring to the Gospel referred to by Christians and that is the combined four gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. However, my intention is not to state that this is the actual Gospel that God revealed to Jesus peace be upon him. So the word is used in different contexts and Christians fail to identify this when it comes to studying the Qur'an and authentic hadith. (Refuting The Argument Regarding The Qur'an Ordering The Jews And Christians To Judge By Their Scriptures; capital emphasis ours)
Doesn’t Zawadi realize that this only provides further evidence that he is inconsistent and dishonest? Doesn’t he see that this simply demonstrates that he contradicted himself since he obviously forgot what he had written in his previous articles?
Notice once again his assault against Dr. White:
This is a joke, where does the Qur'an say that the Torah is the Old Testament law? The Qur'an said that the Torah was revealed to Moses. How could the Old Testament law have been revealed to Moses when even many conservative evangelical scholars even admit that Joshua contributed to it?
Zawadi chides Dr. White for stating that the Quran uses the word Torah for the Old Testament Law, going so far as to call what he said a joke! But seeing that Zawadi admits that the Torah in the Quran can mean and does refer to the Old Testament why then did he take Dr. White to task? Why did he insult Dr. White and call his statements a joke?
The reason is clear. Zawadi forgot what he had written and thought he had caught Dr. White in a mistake and in his arrogance went on the attack. Little did he realize that this blunder would come back to bite him and expose his intellectual ineptness.
Moreover, in the same paragraph where he admits that he was mistaken Zawadi comes up with another excuse to justify his gross blunder:
As for Shamoun's second question, I will have to admit that I made a mistake when I said that the Qur'an says that the Torah was revealed to Moses. Sometimes as a Muslim I mistakenly say "Qur'an" instead of "Islam". Islamic teachings consist of both the Qur'an and the authentic hadeeth.
The problem with this assertion is that Dr. White said nothing about “Islam,” i.e. the Quran AND the authentic hadiths, identifying the Torah as the Old Testament Law. Dr. White explicitly stated that the Quran says that God sent down the Torah, which he then identified as the Old Testament Law. So if Zawadi meant that it is the so-called authentic hadith which asserts that the "original" Torah was revealed to Moses then he had no business to attack Dr. White since the latter wasn’t speaking of the ahadith.
Besides, as we demonstrated in this very rebuttal even these allegedly sound narratives identify the Torah in the possession of the Jews at Muhammad’s time as the very revelation which God gave to Moses! And since the only Torah which these Jews had at that time is the very Pentateuch or the first five books of the Old Testament which we currently possess this means that Dr. White was right!
As if Zawadi couldn’t make it any worse for himself he goes on to attack a straw man and in so doing only further embarrasses himself. He mentions that Ibn Kathir claimed that the story of Adam in the Old Testament was false and deceptive in order to show that this renowned Muslim expositor believed that these Scriptures were corrupt and unreliable. He then argues that the Salaf didn’t believe that the two Testaments were the Torah revealed to Moses!
As anyone who has actually taken the time to read my article carefully can testify I said absolutely nothing about the Salaf believing that the two Testaments were the revelation given to Moses, nor did I ever claim that Ibn Kathir viewed the Old Testament as completely reliable. My only point in referencing them was to establish that the word Torah is not limited to the revelations which Moses received since the first generation of Muslims used it to refer to the other inspired Books that God had sent down.
In fact, Zawadi himself admits as much since he later writes:
Hence, they had no problem in recognizing that the word Torah could in certain contexts refer to the original revelation sent to Moses AND IN OTHER CONTEXTS REFER TO THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENTS. (Emphasis ours)
Therefore, since Zawadi acknowledges that the early Muslims would refer to both the Old and New Testaments as the Torah this means that he was wrong for attacking Dr. White since it turns out that the latter was right after all. The simple matter is that it was Zawadi who was grossly mistaken.
Zawadi then quotes specific narratives from al-Bukhari which speak of Allah revealing the Torah to Moses so as to prove that the early Muslims and Islamic scholars were aware of these hadiths and therefore knew that the Torah was given to Moses. Seeing that I never contested this fact this further shows that Zawadi is doing nothing more than attack a straw man again.
Zawadi needs to face the music and accept the fact that he is not qualified to defend Islam or criticize the arguments of his opponents. Zawadi is simply doing more harm than good by producing articles that are filled with logical fallacies, gross misrepresentations of sources, outright distortions of facts, and major blunders which result in serious embarrassment for his fellow Muslims and his religion. If Zawadi really loves Islam then he should stop producing articles that only hinder the Islamic cause since his “replies” demonstrate why Islamic apologetics are intellectually bankrupt and dishonest. His arguments go a long a way in demonstrating why any serious student of truth should never be a follower of the false prophet Muhammad but should actually be repulsed by the Muslim god and the vile and immoral teachings of this wicked false religion.
Source: http://answering-islam.org/authors/shamoun/rebuttals/zawadi/ignorance_arrogance.html
IHS
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