More Groans for Shabir Ally

Shabir Ally could provide no greater proof of his deceptive and dishonest handling of sources than what he did to my own words during the Q&A section of his debate with my colleague David Wood (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvBB8b4VF6M). After referring to the following hadiths,

Chapter 8: THROWING OF NON-BELIEVERS IN HELL-FIRE FOR BELIEVERS AS DIVINE GRACE AND MERCY

Abu Musa’ reported that Allah’s Messenger said: When it will be the Day of Resurrection Allah would deliver to every Muslim a Jew or a Christian and say: That is your RESCUE from Hell-Fire. (Sahih Muslim, Book 037, Number 6665 https://www.searchtruth.com/book_display.php?book=037&translator=2&start=0&number=6665)

Abu Burda reported on the authority of his father that Allah’s Apostle said: No Muslim would die but Allah would admit IN HIS STEAD a Jew or a Christian in Hell-Fire. ‘Umar b. Abd al-‘Aziz took an oath: By One besides Whom there is no god but He, thrice that his father had narrated that to him from Allah’s Messenger. (Sahih Muslim, Book 037, Number 6666)

Abu Burda reported Allah’s Messenger as saying: There would come people amongst the Muslims on the Day of Resurrection with AS HEAVY SINS AS A MOUNTAIN, and Allah would FORGIVE THEM and He would PLACE IN THEIR STEAD the Jews and the Christians. (As far as I think), Abu Raub said: I do not know as to who is in doubt. Abu Burda said: I narrated it to ‘Umar b. ‘Abd al-‘Aziz, whereupon he said: Was it your father who narrated it to you from Allah’s Apostle? I said: Yes. (Sahih Muslim, Book 037, Number 6668)

Superiority of the believers in the Oneness of Allah and the punishment of the Jews and Christians

8) Narrated Abu Musa: Allah’s Messenger said: On the Day of Resurrection, my Ummah (nation) will be gathered into three groups. One sort will enter Paradise without rendering an account (of their deeds). Another sort will be reckoned an easy account and admitted into Paradise. Yet another sort will come bearing on their backs heaps of sins like great mountains. Allah will ask the angels though He knows best about them: Who are these people? They will reply: They are humble slaves of yours. He will say: Unload the sins from them and put the same over the Jews and Christians: then let the humble slaves get into Paradise by virtue of My Mercy.

(This Hadith IS SOUND and mentioned in Mustadrak of Hakim). (110 Hadith Qudsi (Sacred Hadith), translated by Syed Masood-ul-Hasan, revision and commentaries by Ibrahim m. Kunna [Darussalam Publishers and Distributors], pp. 19-20; capital and underline emphasis ours)

I asked Ally whether he is able to reconcile the justice of THIS perverted concept of substitutionary atonement without throwing his sources under the bus. Ally did as I predicted, since he ended up calling into question the veracity of Sahih Muslim, despite the fact that Islam’s greatest scholars have claimed this to be a collection of narrations whose authenticity have been rigorously authenticated. In fact, some of the Muslim scholars have even gone as far as to argue that in some respect Sahih Muslim is actually superior to the hadith collection of Sahih al-Bukhari!(1)

“… Although Sahih al-Bukhari is the most reliable collection of Ahadith, however, Sahih Muslim has certain aspects of superiority. Imam Muslim adhered strictly to most of the principles of the Science of Hadith which were somehow at some places ignored by his teacher Imam Bukhari. Imam Muslim accepted for his collection only such Ahadith which had been transmitted with an unbroken chain of reliable narrators, free from all defects and were in perfect harmony with the narrations of other narrators. He has recorded only those ahadith which were transmitted at least by two different transmitters from two different Companions. Imam Bukhari has sometimes used the Kunyah (surname) of the narrators and sometimes their names. Imam Muslim avoided this confusion. Imam Muslim is also particular in pointing out the slightest difference in the text of the narrations. Imam Bukhari has fragmented most of the Ahadith and presented the portions under different chapters, while Imam Muslim presented them as a whole narration. So, the works of both Imams provide different approaches for the scholars and readers of Ahadith.” (The Translation of the Meanings of Summarized Sahih Muslim, Publisher’s Note, Volume 1, p. ii; bold emphasis ours)

And:

“Imam Muslim compiled many books and treatises on Hadith, the most important of his works is the compilation of the Hadith collection Al-Jami‘ As-Sahih, which is famous by the name of Sahih Muslim. Some scholars of Hadith opine that in some respects IT IS THE BEST AND MOST AUTHENTIC COLLECTION of Ahadith. Imam Muslim laboriously collected 300,000 Ahadith, but after critical study, he selected only 4,000 Ahadith for this collection…

“Many students learned the Science of Hadith from Imam Muslim. Those who became famous and occupied a prominent position are: Abu Hatim Razi, Musa bin Harun, Ahmad bin Salamah, Abu ‘Isa Tirmidhi, Abu Bakr bin Khuzaimah, Abu ‘Awanah and Hafiz Dhahbi.” (Ibid., p. v; bold and capital emphasis ours).

This means that these traditions thoroughly met Imam Muslim’s stringent criteria of authenticity, which also indicates that this renowned hadith scholar was fully convinced that these were actual statements uttered by Muhammad. Therefore, Ally is going to have to do a lot more than to simply brush aside these traditions on the grounds that they somehow contradict the Quran, since the fact still remains that according to the very strict criteria employed by Imam Muslim they are genuine sayings of the historical Muhammad (that is, as far as Islamic historiography and hadith criticism are concerned). As such, these narrations are still binding upon Sunni Muslims which Ally claims to be.

He then proceeded to go on a tirade against the Christian concept of atonement, which is nothing more than a red herring on his part. To make matters worse, he even had the audacity to twist my own words. Note what he said:

“And where is the justice in any system of justice? YOU YOURSELF SAID ITS KIND OF A PERVERTED JUSTICE IF ONE PERSON SUFFERS IN THE PLACE OF ANOTHER.”

Did you just catch what he did? He falsely accused me of saying that it is a perversion of justice for one person to suffer in the place of another, WHEN THAT IS THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF WHAT I SAID, since I began my question my plainly telling Ally that the Quran NOWHERE denies the possibility of a person bearing the sins of another, but rather denies that a sinful person who is burdened with his own sins is able to do so. I then said that this then opens the door for Jesus doing so since he is without sin, and therefore without any burdens.

It is clear that my words were directed to Muhammad’s travesty of the doctrine of atonement, NOT TO THE CONCEPT OF ATONEMENT IN GENERAL. As anyone hearing the exchange can personally verify, I was condemning Muhammad’s teaching that Allah would torture Jews and Christians in hell as a ransom for all the wickedness and sins committed by Muslims as a perversion, since this means that Allah is punishing Jews and Christians for their own sins AND THE SINS OF MUHAMMADANS! Now that is truly despicable and perverted!

In fact, even a convert to Islam named Paul Williams could see that Ally deliberately twisted my words since he left the following comments to a youtube video produced by another shameless deceiver name YahyaSnow where he claims that I ended up embarrassing myself since Ally took my own words and turned them against me (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVlL7vjphpk&lc=z12bhhc41wndcftek23hc1fijuiudfvvn):

Pcc B 19 hours ago

that’s not quite fair on Sam. When he refers to ‘perverted concept of substitutionary atonement’ HE IS SPEAKING OF THE ISLAMIC REJECTION OF IT – not his own view. I don’t think Sam misspoke here (Capital emphasis ours)

In light of the foregoing, can there be any doubt left that Ally is indeed a liar and deceiver who has no shame in twisting and perverting the statements of scholars and apologists in order to score cheap debate points? What makes this rather unfortunate for Ally is that he thinks he can get away with his gross perversion and misquotation of people, but not any longer since we will continue to call him out on any and all lies and deliberate manhandling of any source he references anytime he opens his mouth.

So Ally, you have been forewarned!

Endnotes

(1) To better appreciate this comparison with Sahih Al-Bukhari, note what the English translator states concerning this great collection:

It has been UNANIMOUSLY AGREED that Imam Bukhari’s work is the most authentic of all the other works in Hadith literature PUT TOGETHER. The authenticity of Al-Bukhari’s work is such that the religious learned scholars of Islam said concerning him: “The most authentic book after the Book of Allah (i.e., Al-Qur’an) is Sahih Al-Bukhari.”… Before he recorded each Hadith he would make ablution and offer two Rak’at prayer and supplicate his Lord (Allah). Many religious scholars of Islam tried to find fault in the great remarkable collection- Sahih Al-Bukhari, BUT WITHOUT SUCCESS. It is for this reason, they UNANIMOUSLY AGREED that the most authentic book after the Book of Allah IS Sahih Al-Bukhari. (Translation of the Meanings of Sahih al-Bukhari, Arabic-English, translated by Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan, Formerly Director, University Hospital, Islamic University, Al-Madina Al-Munawwara (Kingdom of Saudi Arabia), [Dar-us-Salam Publishers & Distributors, Riyadh-Saudi Arabia, July, 1997], Volume 1, pp. 18-19; bold and capital emphasis ours)

Note that these are the very sources that Ally has no qualms throwing under the bus whenever they prove too damaging to his position. This is precisely why I accused Ally of preaching Hislam, e.g., his version of Islam, as opposed to actual Islam, since he presents an Islam that doesn’t exist in reality and which isn’t anchored in its primary sources. Rather Ally’s Hislam only exists in his own imagination and wishful thinking.

Source: https://answeringislamblog.wordpress.com/2018/09/29/more-groans-for-shabir-ally/ 

IHS